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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth (Read 297 times)
Tony Smith
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For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
11/23/17 at 04:03:05
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http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

Bluntly they are crap. That my 1150GSA was fitted with one when I test rode it nearly resulted in me passing on it until I discovered it had been only fitted a few days prior. That K&N now forms part of my local council's land fill program, where all the other K&N filters belong.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Bob_Roller
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #1 - 11/23/17 at 15:29:55
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Never been a fan of the oiled gauze type air filters .

Living in a desert, there's always a fair amount of dirt in the air, if we have a windy day here, visibility drops from unlimited, to just a few miles in less than an hour .

My Guzzi had one when I got it, one of the first things to be replaced on it as well .

It's interesting that Purlator filters seem to be one of the better air filters .

I use only OEM filters in all the vehicles .
  

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'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
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I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Tony Smith
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #2 - 11/23/17 at 17:52:46
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I should say that in all probability using a K&N filter will not actively harm an airhead, the internal clearances are fairly relaxed so the major function of the airfilter is to stop rocks, boy scouts and small horses from being injested. I don't hold the same view for engines that have less "relaxed" tolerances.


My major beef is that they are sold on the basis of being somehow better than stick pleated paper and that fitting them will provide a performance gain - this is of course complete hog-wash and stands as testament to how easily fooled modern youth are by an increase in induction howl.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Rob Valdez 79 R65
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #3 - 12/11/17 at 23:06:28
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Tony Smith wrote on 11/23/17 at 17:52:46:
My major beef is that they are sold on the basis of being somehow better than stick pleated paper and that fitting them will provide a performance gain - this is of course complete hog-wash and stands as testament to how easily fooled modern youth are by an increase in induction howl.


Yes, they were all the rage with the unknowing over on the CBR250R forum.
Great bike, but it attracts a lot of first-time riders who somehow think that plastic panels turn it into a Sport Bike.
No, it's just a small, cheap bike that starts every time.  Wink

The elders tried to set them straight, but like you said, they need more noise.
  
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Motu
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #4 - 12/18/17 at 00:04:57
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Rather than pure hate, we've been having a more enlightening discusion on ADV.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/k-n-air-filter-times-up.1270840/
  
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Barry
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #5 - 12/18/17 at 03:57:19
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They spun that out a bit didn't they. I had seen that thread on ADVR but took no interest in it simply because a K&N in an airhead is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. The stock filter set up flows more than enough air particularly for smaller engines. Who would want the extra hassle of maintaining a K&N. It's not as if the old clam shell filter is exactly easy and quick to access.

I do have some experience with oiled filters. I ran a Suzuki 400  single for 12 years.  That had a very fine steel mesh oil filter and an oiled foam air filter. Neither were very efficient, the oil filter would only have stopped Tony's rocks, boy scouts and small horses.  I just changed the oil and cleaned/re-oiled the foam filter every 1000 miles and never had a problem. At least the cost of replacement filters was zero over 12 years.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Tony Smith
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #6 - 12/18/17 at 14:10:44
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Barry wrote on 12/18/17 at 03:57:19:
They spun that out a bit didn't they.

Barry, you have a hitherto unsuspected capacity for withering understatement!

I looked at the Advrider thread and I feel that a small misquotation is appropriate:

"Never, in the field of human discourse, has so much been said about so little."
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Motu
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #7 - 12/18/17 at 22:50:46
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I thought the comparison to a Dynabeads threads was pretty good.  I've used Dynabeads, they work, but I also just fit tyres and ride...that works too. The nay sayers come up with all theory on why they don't work, others just put them in and ride.  Same with the K&N, lots of they don't work, some just fit them and ride.  I still think the problems are incorrect fitting and too much washing and oiling.  I don't have a K&N in my bike at the moment, but am happy to use them when required.

Love the full scale bar graph, just goes to show how ''facts'' are distorted.
  
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Tony Smith
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #8 - 12/19/17 at 13:59:41
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My point has always been that K&N filters will not harm an airhead, in fact a 2nd hand stocking stretched over the carb intake would just about be enough. My objection to K&N is that they claim to be a better filter, which they are not, and that they claim you will gain a performance increase from using them, which you will not.

i don't know what dynabeads are, but I suspect from reading something previously that they are some sort of dynamic tyre balancing system. If so they probably work, but unless your tyre is seriously out of balance something cheap like tyre slime will also dynamically balance them and provide the added benefit of some self-sealing in the event f minor punctures.

Hell water is essentially free and will also do a 1st class balancing job.


The next bit will probably be lost on non-Australian or NZ members, but I wonder if we could get a good argument going on the benefits of a Hiclone fitted to an R65?
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Motu
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #9 - 12/19/17 at 16:40:26
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Of course they don't improve performance, and are not a perfect filter...I just don't get the hate.  I use them where appropriate, and they do the job well.

Same as multi earth sparkplugs...of course they don't meet the claims, but they work well and last a very long time.  Again, I just don't understand the soapbox rants against them.
  
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Tony Smith
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #10 - 12/19/17 at 17:44:53
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Motu wrote on 12/19/17 at 16:40:26:
Of course they don't improve performance, and are not a perfect filter...I just don't get the hate. 


But they are sold as such, which is a lie. More to the point they are sold at a premium price and the "requirement" that their own special oils and ungents be used to service them (semen of unborn unicorns?)

It is the fundamental fallacy that annoys me.


Same as hiclone. (non southern-cross dwellers can click here to see what a hiclone is  https://www.hicloneqld.com/hiclone-products/).

A business built on lies and cleverly marketed to avoid statutory consumer protection laws.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Motu
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #11 - 12/19/17 at 18:01:32
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An American company, that might explain the approach. If they were as bad as everyone says, K&N would've gone under decades ago from law suits.  I try not to read blurbs about how good a product is, they never are...I get hands on for a good look and make a decision.  Sometimes I find I love something others hate, and other times hate what others love.
  
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Tony Smith
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #12 - 12/20/17 at 01:03:15
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Motu wrote on 12/19/17 at 18:01:32:
An American company, that might explain the approach. If they were as bad as everyone says, K&N would've gone under decades ago from law suits.  I try not to read blurbs about how good a product is, they never are...I get hands on for a good look and make a decision.  Sometimes I find I love something others hate, and other times hate what others love. 



Although I do not disregard feelings, I tend to look at the science.

The science says K&N filters are worthless crap.
  

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Motu
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #13 - 12/20/17 at 01:22:52
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Show me your worn engines, intakes full of dust, UOA's showing high silicone levels and other real world data.   I'm just looking for proof, not an opinion.

  
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Tony Smith
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Re: For those that still believe the K&N Filters myth
Reply #14 - 12/20/17 at 01:27:24
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Motu wrote on 12/20/17 at 01:22:52:
Show me your worn engines, intakes full of dust, UOA's showing high silicone levels and other real world data.   I'm just looking for proof, not an opinion.




The internet abounds - go fetch.

In fact at the start of this thread I posted one useful site that reported testing, there are many, many others.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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