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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Starter R&R on R100RT (Read 150 times)
Justin B.
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Starter R&R on R100RT
01/07/18 at 23:13:50
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Over the years the starter in my '81 R100Rt has gotten slower and slower until lately it would just give a stout grunt, even with a new fresh battery.  Luckily my state of tune allowed it to start on that grunt but it always made me nervous. 

I found new Valeo style starters on amazon for under $60 so I told wife.gov that's what I wanted for Christmas.  I finally got around to installing it today and, man, what a difference!  Cranks like crazy - I'm a happy camper.  I'll put up some pics maybe tomorrow.

Time will tell whether it's reliable or not but for the price I figured I'd throw the dice.  One nice "feature", over the Bosch, is the mounting ears are threaded so no messing around with the bolts and nuts, just run in the stock bolts from the rear and you're set.
  

Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!
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Justin B.
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #1 - 01/08/18 at 09:55:07
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OK, here's some pics of the install.  Not really a "tutorial" but a few snapshots of what things look like during the R&R.
  

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Justin B.

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Justin B.
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #2 - 01/08/18 at 10:06:38
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As seen in the first pic the replacement is a little smaller, and lighter, than the original Bosch unit.  I imagine "Reverend Light" can appreciate that!  Wink

This was a 100% drop-in swap as far as this particular application went and the overall job is fairly easy.
  

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Justin B.

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wilcom
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #3 - 01/08/18 at 10:23:20
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Justin............ When I went from a Bosch to a Veleo(knockoff) I had a devil of a time getting a socket on the bolt to screw into the Veleo ear on the left side. I ended up grinding some of the tranny webing to get a wrench on it. Did you see any of the same difficulty on the R100?
  

grind_til_it_works_001.jpg ( 511 KB | 0 Downloads )
grind_til_it_works_001.jpg

Joe Wilkerson
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jp9094
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #4 - 01/08/18 at 16:34:47
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Is it really necessary to remove the whole air filter system?

Best regards
  

"It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts"
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Tony Smith
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #5 - 01/08/18 at 16:41:20
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jp9094 wrote on 01/08/18 at 16:34:47:
Is it really necessary to remove the whole air filter system?


Sadly yes, there are obstructed bolts.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #6 - 01/08/18 at 19:28:59
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I tried to start mine last week just to see what it would do a 5 deg F
Not much
Even with the battery on the battery tender the old style Bosch starters just draw to much for the little battery  to crank it over at that temp
Not that it really needed to start  Shocked
It was probably good that it didn't
I may have collapsed my oil filter 
I am sure the permanent magnet type starters would do much better when it is cold   
  

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Justin B.
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #7 - 01/08/18 at 22:46:05
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wilcom wrote on 01/08/18 at 10:23:20:
Justin............ When I went from a Bosch to a Veleo(knockoff) I had a devil of a time getting a socket on the bolt to screw into the Veleo ear on the left side. I ended up grinding some of the tranny webing to get a wrench on it. Did you see any of the same difficulty on the R100?


Yeah, had to do the same thing but forgot to add that.  I probably could have done it with a 1/4" drive "wobble-socket" but didn't have one the right size so grinding was easier.

Also, Tony is right, the airbox needs to come off to get a the two starter bolts AND the Bosch starter has a bracket on the a$$-end that is secured to the timing chain cover so the front engine cover has to come off as well.
  

Justin B.

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BPT
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #8 - 01/09/18 at 08:17:04
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So how long of a job would you say this would be?  And if it has never been replaced, should one plan on having to do the grinding as well?
  

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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #9 - 01/09/18 at 16:22:14
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I've removed the starters from all three of my R65's, and did not have to remove the airbox .
Is the R100 engine different from the R65 ???

To get on the bolt heads, I just placed a large flat blade screwdriver between the bolt head and engine case, it prevented the bolt from turning .
  

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Mrclubike
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #10 - 01/09/18 at 20:03:20
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I always make sure that it can be done with the tools I carry
If not then I add a tool or change the fastener
Preferably I change the fastener or modify the parts 
I want to carry as few tools as possible
  

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wilcom
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #11 - 01/09/18 at 21:43:27
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Bob_Roller wrote on 01/09/18 at 16:22:14:
To get on the bolt heads, I just placed a large flat blade screwdriver between the bolt head and engine case, it prevented the bolt from turning .


Bob, it wasn't getting the bolts and nuts off as you can work from either side. The Valeo has threaded ears and the bolts must go in from the back side and that's where I ran afoul of the webbing on the tranny.
  

Joe Wilkerson
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Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
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1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
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Tony Smith
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #12 - 01/10/18 at 00:36:47
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BPT wrote on 01/09/18 at 08:17:04:
So how long of a job would you say this would be? 


I'd budget a morning (or afternoon) for the job, but you are likely going to take longer with the "unforeseens" - see below.


BPT wrote on 01/09/18 at 08:17:04:
And if it has never been replaced, should one plan on having to do the grinding as well?


No grinding is required if you have the right tools. My memory tells me that either a 3/8th or 1/4 socket and extension does not run foul of the case, or if it does 5 minutes work on the flanks of the extension to give it a bit of "wobble" will solve the problem.

The real problem is the "unforeseens". Fer instance, hows the rubber pipe from the crank vent system to air box looking? How are the starter motor cables? In my case the insulation had split near the starter motor terminal and the cable was within a whisker of making contact with the engine block - fortunately I remembered that I had fitted a new starter cable set to the R100 shortly before taking it off the road, so I robbed that cable set.

But these or a myriad other things on an older motorcycle can all be show stoppers on the day and you get ti leave it in pieces waiting for parts to arrive. Such is the lot of those who ride old bikes.

If I can briefly comment on the whole starter motor replacement thing.

When they first came out Valeo starters caused a lot of problems, usually detaching magnets, I believe this has been long cured now.

On the other hand I have been fixing Bosch starters as required since my very first car (OK so my first car had a Lucas starter, but most of the rest have been Bosch, with a sprinkling of Nippondenso.  I know Bosch starters and I know how to fix just about anything that goes wrong with them. If i need a Bosch starter part on the road I can get one from anywhere including car dealers, auto electricians, VW parts houses etc.

The Bosch starter is heavy, it is woefully inefficient, but it keeps on trucking and billy the blacksmith can fix it.

The Valeo starter in the GSA is starting to make noises I don't like, if/when it fails I will investigate fitting a Bosch starter before repairing/replacing the Valeo.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Bob_Roller
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #13 - 01/10/18 at 16:26:34
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OK, that cleared up my question, about going back together with the Valeo starter .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
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I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Justin B.
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Re: Starter R&R on R100RT
Reply #14 - 01/10/18 at 22:35:20
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I looked at it and decided that it would be easier to remove airbox, grind off obstruction, and use 3/8" drive with wobble-sockets.  As Tony indicated I could have gotten access with the correct "wobble socket" or modifying one of my "wobble extensions" for a bit more wobble but grinding only to 30 seconds... 

Also, Tony's pretty close on the time if I would have been diligent .  Roll Eyes  I tore it down and swapped starters on Saturday (couple of hours) and finished putting it back together on Sunday (maybe an hour more).
  

Justin B.

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