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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Should this even be running? (Read 1227 times)
skippyc
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #15 - 04/04/18 at 22:56:33
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wilcom wrote on 04/04/18 at 09:47:33:
I'm baffled why I could not get a spark rotating slowly yet could when spun by the starter??

My take is it requires some speed to generate the magnet flux to activate the trigger
  
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wilcom
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #16 - 04/04/18 at 23:04:18
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skippyc wrote on 04/04/18 at 22:56:33:
My take is it requires some speed to generate the magnet flux to activate the trigger
                   


Thanks Skippyc that makes sense. One more unknown wiped out

  

Joe Wilkerson
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1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
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BPT
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #17 - 04/05/18 at 01:10:17
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I had some alligator clips that had a rubber covering.  Kind of a pain to open and close in the tight area of the that plug but it worked and kept them from touching.  I got some connectors from my local electrical supply and was going to wire those up and cover them with heat shrink.

Last week I called Newark and they have what appears to be the bike side of the plug, but not the one that goes on the bean can.  So that might work if it fits.   I need to order a few other things to make it worthwhile from there, I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

The biggest problem I came across other than the plugs were resistors.  Fry's has a bunch, but was out of the size I needed. Nobody could tell me where else to check.  On my way out I saw a guy working on the stereo display, chatted with him a bit, and he ended up going into their shop and gave me a strip of a few. They were unmarked, but he was pretty sure they'd work.  I had to get online to decipher what they were, but they ended up being correct.

I'm not sure why they've disappeared but it'd be really nice to be able to find the bean can end of the plug, I have a spare I wanted to clean up.
  

1983 R65 w/ Velorex 562 Sidecar
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georgesgiralt
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #18 - 04/05/18 at 05:01:26
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Hello,
So, it appears that your bean can is stuck in full advance. Time for you to open it.
You can't get a spark when turning the crank slowly because the ICU prevents it. It cuts itself out to save the output transistors from dying and it needs a couple of impulse from the bean can to activate. These impulses must be in a short period of time. Clever, eh ?
Now that you've checked everything, open the bean can and service it.
I buy my AMP Junior timer connectors from Kalitec in Germany because I live in France Wink and they are cheap.
https://www.kabelschuhe-shop.de/Connectors/AMP-JPT:::314_364.html
  
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wilcom
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #19 - 04/05/18 at 07:04:21
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georgesgiralt wrote on 04/05/18 at 05:01:26:
So, it appears that your bean can is stuck in full advance.


When I rev the motor I see the mark moving on the flywheel/carrier. it seems to be advancing fine.
  

Joe Wilkerson
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Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
1972  R75        
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georgesgiralt
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #20 - 04/05/18 at 07:46:42
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Advancing fine maybe. But there is a problem in this bean can.
And you won't find it until you open it ...
  
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wilcom
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #21 - 04/05/18 at 08:24:48
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georgesgiralt wrote on 04/05/18 at 07:46:42:
And you won't find it until you open it ...
                   


You may be/probably correct George, but I'm not going any deeper down this rabbit hole for now.

I'm buttoning it back up and heading for Arizona in the morning. Maybe by the time I get back(always optimistic) it will have righted itself or be a puddle of molten aluminum on the California/Arizona Border.

As it stand right now, I think the bike has a problem because of readings I'm seeing, not because of running poorly. I still suspect "I am the problem" and not the bike. I'm not convinced what I am seeing is actually happening.

Think about it, if what I am seeing is true, then the bike is performing well with initial advance set at 30 degrees and at 3000rpm I'm running around  in the neighborhood of 60 degrees of advance with cheap assed fuel and not pinging and starting on the first kick/button push.

I have to have a better understanding of what is going on before I operate on a patient that says he feels well and just ran a 4 minute mile.
  

Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
1972  R75        
1964 R50
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BPT
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #22 - 04/05/18 at 10:00:16
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Georgesgiralt - will those plugs mate with the originals?
  

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georgesgiralt
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #23 - 04/05/18 at 11:31:24
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Yes, BPT, they do. AMP heard their customers and replaced the bail wire with a sturdy clip acting as a spring. Easier to clip, and remove but a bit bulkier. They ARE the actual AMP product.
  
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #24 - 04/05/18 at 12:43:29
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Thanks, Georges.  Now if I could find some in the US!  Would you have a part number by any chance?
  

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georgesgiralt
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #25 - 04/05/18 at 14:56:00
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Google gives me Farnell as a supplier when fed with "amp JPT connector" ...
So I'll think you'll find a distributor in the US. AMP IS American, right ?
Have a nice day !
P.S. : The pins are a pita to crimp if you do not have the proper ratchet crimping tool and die... So buy more pins than you actually need. Just a thought .... Smiley
  
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #26 - 04/05/18 at 15:46:13
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I'm not sure why Georges but this particular thing is not easy to find.  A few places have the plug that goes to the bike, but the one for the bean can is the one that nobody carries.

I talked to a tech at Newark (which I think is connected to Farnell;  maybe Farnell is UK?) and he couldn't explain why they had one end but not the other.  They can get them but the minimum order was 2000.  A few more than I needed......    Shocked

There is one more place here locally that said they show a large number coming in.  I will check with them next week and see if that's true.

There are several options to replace with 3 pin plugs, just not many that will fit with the originals.  I'd rather have the original if possible.
  

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wilcom
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #27 - 04/05/18 at 16:09:06
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BPT wrote on 04/05/18 at 15:46:13:
I'd rather have the original if possible.
                   


It's an awfully bulky connection for 3 wires. I think if I did make a change I would definitely put more length on the engine side and less on the bean can side so you work on the darn thing. My fingers don't do well jammed up there working in the dark. The bail is suspect that I would get it back on right so I am doing one wrap with Gorilla tape and tossing the bail.

  

Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
1972  R75        
1964 R50
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wilcom
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #28 - 04/05/18 at 16:17:19
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I am suspending the trouble shooting of the elusive "extra" 30 degrees of timing thing. I'm now at the point,  like George suggested, diving into the bean can and the first thing I want to do is just swap it with a known good bean can and see what happens

Larry Stonestreet is having an "Airheads" Tech Day about 4 miles from me 30 days from now. Since the bike is not complaining about anything I will wait and go at it "hammer & Tong" on his tech day.

I'm buttoning it up and riding it to Arizona in the morning and back on Sunday( about 700 miles) I'm optimistic about my chances of returning.  Grin

I'll send you guys a pic along the way

Thanks for your suggestions and input!!
  

Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
1972  R75        
1964 R50
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BPT
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Re: Should this even be running?
Reply #29 - 04/05/18 at 17:13:51
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"It's an awfully bulky connection for 3 wires. I think if I did make a change I would definitely put more length on the engine side and less on the bean can side so you work on the darn thing. My fingers don't do well jammed up there working in the dark. The bail is suspect that I would get it back on right so I am doing one wrap with Gorilla tape and tossing the bail."

I agree Wilcom, they definitely could have set the wiring up a little better in there.  The only reason I was looking for the original style plug was so that I could connect it to different things - the one I have, a spare, and a tester.  Plus I'm figuring it will be a pain to add a new plug to the bike for the reasons we just mentioned.

Not a huge deal, I'll replace them if I have to.  I had no idea it'd be this hard to find a simple plug though.  I'm not sure if you've heard of Mouser but that is who is supposed to be getting some in the next week or so.  They are huge like Newark and have millions of things.  They happen to be located in my region so I can place small orders and pick up from them.  I'll let you know if they come through for me.
  

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