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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) R65 Resurrection (Read 10635 times)
TomHoldom
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R65 Resurrection
09/24/18 at 11:39:06
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OK here goes; I'm pretty much a novice so please excuse my ignorance.
I have a 1978 R65 which I bought around 20 years ago, used on and off for 10 years, then left for 10 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery obviously dead, but a friend hooked it up to their car and managed to get the engine to splutter back to life.

So I'm looking for advice on my next moves...

Oil change:
Before I do much else I was planning to change the oils
engine / gearbox / driveshaft / rear bevel ?
Currently with no battery not so easy to get the oil warm, can I do this with a cold engine?
Any advice on which oils?
Planning to buy the motobins oil filter exchange kit (code 01955A) which includes a new filter

b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?

Front Disk brake:
Before I stopping using the bike there was a small leak in the front brake master cylinder. (which has now ruined the paintwork on my front mudguard)
At the moment I’m still stuck with trying to get the reservoir cap off (round type) as 2 of the 3 screws are turning without coming out, but assuming a can remove this, I was going to buy the £40 Motobins “Brake master cylinder overhaul kit (16mm)”, but wondered whether there is anyway of knowing whether this will solve my problem.
At the moment I’m trying to avoid changing to the later square reservoir as I understand I’ll need to change the whole throttle assembly

Fuel supply:
When I disconnect the pipe from the bottom of the fuel tap and turn on the tap, there is only a rapid drip which feels like its not rapid enough and might need clearing. Is there any way simply check my flow rate to check whether I need to disassemble and clean the tap - or is that obviously blocked?

Also on my first motobins order planning to include Carburettor rebuild kit (code: 60020A), and new air filter (code: 03200)

Obviously this just phase one to get the thing rolling again, and I would appreciate any help and advice on the above, and all the obvious stuff I’ve missed….
Thanks
« Last Edit: 09/25/18 at 22:44:22 by Justin B. »  
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Barry
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Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #1 - 09/24/18 at 14:38:14
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If all the oils were changed just before putting the bike into storage I would run the bike to get everything hot before changing them.  New oil doesn't deteriorate that much in storage, particular the transmission oils which don't have the source of contamination that the engine does.

If the oils weren't fresh then change the engine oil without doubt  before running the engine even if that means a cold oil change.  If the oil comes out looking terrible then you might want to drop the sump to clean out any settled sludge. In this case I wouldn't fuss about what oil to use as I'd be changing it again soon.

Battery sounds fine. Many of us are using cheap generic AGM batteries.

My round mater cylinder is all still original so I'm not sure what the Motobins kit includes. I doubt it includes the seal between the reservoir and metal body.

Fuel tap sounds obviously blocked possibly with stale fuel. I'd empty the tank to see what the state of the fuel is and what debris the tank contains. There should be a small mesh filter inside the bottom tap union which may be blocked. The tap can be dismantled, cleaned and rebuilt but it's a job that involves much swearing as you'll find out when trying to reassemble it.

Carbs will need a clean and rebuild with new O rings and diaphragm. Flat top Bings can have the diaphragm changed without replacing the whole slide assembly.  Other than the needle jet which is prone to wear there is no need to automatically replace any other jets if they clean up OK.  Floats probably will need replacement which you can check by weighing them. 12 - 14 grams is serviceable.

Round air filters last a very long so I wouldn't  automatically change it unless it's deteriorated or has a vast mileage on it.

Other things to look at ?  I'd be surprised if the Ate front brake caliper wasn't seized from corrosion.

  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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TomHoldom
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Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #2 - 09/25/18 at 08:23:55
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Hi Barry thanks for all that.

I'll definitely change the oil then (hadn't done it for some time before I stopped using it)
Should I do them all, or could I just change the engine and simply check and top up levels on gearbox, drive shaft and rear bevel?

for the engine oil I read a 20w - 50 is ok?
for the gearbox 75W-90? & is this the same for the drive shaft and rear bevel?

The motorbins kit for the master cylinder only includes the piston assembly, but the diaphragm is apparently also still available on http://www.capitalcycle.com in the states. My problem is that I don't know what parts I need, as I don't know whats causing the fluid leak.....I guess once (if.....) I manage to get it apart this may become clearer?

For the carbs should I add needle jets to my order ? Or is there a way to look at them to see if they need replacing?
I'll check the floats.

I have the twin Brembo disks fitted to the bike, but I suppose your comment still applies to these. Would it be sensible to take these apart before refilling the system with break fluid? (see photo; there's a fair amount of rust..)

Lastly (for now at least) it looks like it would be sensible for me to add a torque wrench to my tool box, which one of the following would serve me best:
28 - 210 Nm, 1/2 inch or 
7 - 105 Nm, 3/8 inch

Thanks again
Tom
  

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TomHoldom
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Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #3 - 09/25/18 at 10:13:39
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Hi just taken the fuel tap from the tank and its full of rubbish - obviously needs a good clean out. Any advice on cleaning products would be useful
  

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Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #4 - 09/25/18 at 13:51:49
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TomHoldom wrote on 09/25/18 at 08:23:55:
I'll definitely change the oil then (hadn't done it for some time before I stopped using it)
Should I do them all, or could I just change the engine and simply check and top up levels on gearbox, drive shaft and rear bevel?

for the engine oil I read a 20w - 50 is ok?
for the gearbox 75W-90? & is this the same for the drive shaft and rear bevel?

The motorbins kit for the master cylinder only includes the piston assembly, but the diaphragm is apparently also still available on http://www.capitalcycle.com in the states. My problem is that I don't know what parts I need, as I don't know whats causing the fluid leak.....I guess once (if.....) I manage to get it apart this may become clearer?

For the carbs should I add needle jets to my order ? Or is there a way to look at them to see if they need replacing?
I'll check the floats.

I have the twin Brembo disks fitted to the bike, but I suppose your comment still applies to these. Would it be sensible to take these apart before refilling the system with break fluid? (see photo; there's a fair amount of rust..)

Lastly (for now at least) it looks like it would be sensible for me to add a torque wrench to my tool box, which one of the following would serve me best:
28 - 210 Nm, 1/2 inch or
7 - 105 Nm, 3/8 inch


Changining the trasmission oils is less critical than the engine oil provided an inspection shows there is no water contamination but given you need only a little over 1 litre of oil it might be safer to change them. 75w90 is fine for all 3 and 20W50 for the engine. 

Brembo calipers on a 78 are good news in many respects. It means they are not original and therfore not as old as the bike, they are less suceptble than Ate to corrosion and spares are much cheaper if you do need them.  Rust on the outside is not really a functional issue, it's whether or not the pistons have siezed. If they are not both free to move the brakes won't work and even too much stiction will cause the brakes to sqeal as the pistons will not retract. After 10 years I suspect you'll need to rebuild them.

Measuring needle jets for wear is a tricky business if you consider that the difference between one size of needle jet and the next size up is only 0.8 thousands of an inch. It therefore doesn't take much wear to make a big difference and you are not going to be able to measure that wear without accurate pin gauges which would cost more than new jets.

You can't do everything with one size of torque wrench but of the two the 3/8 wrench will be most useful.

The tap and therfore the tank are a mess and you will probably need to re-coat the tank inside. Not something I've done but you'll find lots of previous thtreads with a search.

  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Justin B.
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Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #5 - 09/25/18 at 14:17:17
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I have done three tanks and found the POR15 tank liner to be the best, IMHO.  The tank on my '81 R100 was very nasty inside, original liner flaking off, etc.  I used Muriatic acid and sloshed and rotated it for about 12 hours and the inside of the tank was a nice matte gray with no liner or rust left.  After rinsing and drying I coated with POR15 and today the tank is still silver on the inside - after about 13 years or so.

You might want to think about a new fuel tap.  They are about £28.00 + S&H from MotoBins.
  

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Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #6 - 09/25/18 at 20:43:55
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If you plan on rebuilding the calipers take them apart first to make sure what size the piston are
Hopefully they are the standard 38mm 
Honestly I cant imagine riding the bike without rebuilding the brake hydraulics first   
« Last Edit: 09/26/18 at 21:27:02 by Mrclubike »  

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georgesgiralt
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #7 - 09/26/18 at 02:09:11
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And change transmission oil too. Brittany can be quite damp in winter, so I won't be surprised there is some water in the transmission. At first start you will mix the oil and water and turn it into some cafe looking junk.
I second the advice about braking. Planning to be able to stop the bike proper has to be done before putting gas in the tank.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #8 - 09/26/18 at 09:37:47
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TomHoldom wrote on 09/24/18 at 11:39:06:
b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?


I'd find an AGM battery instead, they last longer and require zero maintenance for about the same price.
  

'86 R65 with '84 motor ~66000 miles.  SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles.  Weepy SS lines, big dent in the tank.
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TomHoldom
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #9 - 09/26/18 at 09:39:13
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Thank you Barry, Justin B, Mrclubike and georgesgirait for your advise.

All oils are draining as I type....one issue already which feels like it could be a big one, is that the drive shaft filler plug came undone nicely, but then just continued turning having only lifted a couple of mm...so currently can't get out for refill and presumably it may not seal up well? Any advice?

I'll try and take my Brembo Calipers apart this afternoon.
Can you tell from the photo above whether mine are the twin piston fixed type (they appear to be from the Haynes diagram)?
When I'm ordering parts is there a specific reference I can give to be sure to ordering compatible bits.
For example on the motobins site there is a caliper overhaul kit Code: 23300A    BMW: 34 21 1 237 234 which is for R65 1985 and onwards - could it be this?

Barry, I'll add a couple of needle jets to my motobins order for when I rebuild the carbs - just to be sure I've understood the part you're talking about is the attached photo right (obviously I'll check the size before ordering)

thanks Justin B. I'll order some POR15 and sort out the tank.

Thanks all again
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #10 - 09/26/18 at 09:59:40
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TomHoldom wrote on 09/26/18 at 09:39:13:
Can you tell from the photo above whether mine are the twin piston fixed type (they appear to be from the Haynes diagram)?


You can tell by looking at the caliper that it's a single piston.  Since the '78 models came with ATE calipers, someone has done you a small favor and replaced the originals with Brembos.  Therefore, you can't go off of what the parts fiche says alone - you should measure the piston size and brake pads to determine exactly which caliper you have.  There are at least two different Brembo calipers used on the R65 from when the Brembos were introduced to '87.
  

'86 R65 with '84 motor ~66000 miles.  SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles.  Weepy SS lines, big dent in the tank.
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Barry
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #11 - 09/26/18 at 11:33:01
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Smart thinking Tom, in attempting to remove the filler plug before the drain plug. The various filler and drain plug threads strip easily if over tightened. They should not be more than 10 ftlbs and for filler plugs I use even less. It will need to be helicoiled.

Your calipers are twin piston in that there is a piston pressing on each brake pad as opposed to a single piston sliding caliper commonly fitted to cars.

The picture you posted does show the correct needle jets.

The work list is getting longer. I hope you don't find too many more issues.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #12 - 09/26/18 at 13:45:44
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The small plug on the rear of the final drive is a sight plug.  It's best to leave this alone and remove the vent on top to pour in a pre-measured quantity of lube.

The "Junkyard Dawg" had this stripped as well so I drilled out the hole and made a threaded insert with M6 threaded hole, JB-Welded it into the hole, and used a SS screw with copper washer.  Worked like a champ!

On the POR15 kit, this is what I used along with the Muriatic Acid:

https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Motorcycle-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit-_p_106.html
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #13 - 09/26/18 at 20:00:49
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Ok, the horse has bolted on a sympathetic recomissioning of the engine, given that you have already started it and this picked up a fair quantity of whatever crud was sitting int eh bottom of the sump and run it through the pump, into the filter, and possibly beyond.

Please do add a sump gasket to your purchases and take the sump off and clean it out inside, this is a good opportunity to find out if dire things are happening as is usually evidenced by metal fragments, clips and pins being found int he sump. Please note that the sump gasket does not need ANY sealants, adhesives, or magic potions to do its job, all it needs is a nice, clean mating surface. If you are having trouble getting it to stay in position whilst you offer the sump up to the engine prior to bolting it - a small smear of axle grease is the way to go.

Brakes.
Brembos have hard anodised, polished pistons and unless they leak when connected to a working master cylinder I'd be inclined to leave them alone other than fitting new pads, new stainless steel bleed nipples and some new rubber caps. I would count on replacing the hoses to the brakes as soon as practicable, this is a near 40 year old machine and they have had their life. Braided stainless steel lines are good.

Master cylinder
After the length of time your bike has sat, you can pretty much bank on the master cylinder being toast. Pull it apart and if the bore is undamaged, clean it up and put a new piston kit in it (and then go and buy a handful of lottery tickets). OTOH if the M/C is toast you have some decisions. If it is a "round" tank model, it is junk purely because you can no longer buy new tanks, I have several otherwise serviceable (or repairable) round tank M/Cs and I keep looking but cannot find new tanks. Even if yours is good it is still a time bomb as the seal at the base of the tank will fail and when it does it is game over because whilst it is just a simple O-ring, pulling the tank will destroy it 99 times out of 100.

If you have a square tank, then I'd buy a new tank (they are cheap) and O-ring, and possibly a new internal "baffle" (which are not cheap but are eventually ruined by brake fluid). Look on the front side of the M/C and it will have a number, most likely 12 or 13 which refers to its bore size. I would pay to have a square tank M/C sleeved in stainless steel before I'd buy a new one - the stainless sleeve will last forever and require only piston changes thereafter and will cost a lot less than a new M/C. There are some who say a sleeved master cylinder may leak - in which case it was done wrong. Correctly done the sleeve is frozen and pressed into a heated M/C body that has been previously bored to size - the resultant interference fit is NEVER going to leak. However, a brake cylinder rebuilder who does not have a precision lathe on the premises is likely going to use a bench drill and should be wearing a white cap and a black apron because he is a butcher, not an engineer.  Using a bench drill and adhesives works sufficiently often that many use that method and frankly with a sleeve going into a cast iron cylinder, yeah maybe. Into Alloy - no way......

If you do buy a new M/C, buy the latest brake lever as well, it may help you avoid a mismatch problem.

Fuel tank.

That needs to be cleaned and relined urgently. I've no knowledge of POR products, but a lot of people report positive results. A small tip. Once you have your new liner in the tank and you are about to put it aside to cure, lay it down upside down. The reason for this is that you inevitably end up with a "blob" of excess liner material and if that blob is always under fuel you run the risk of the fuel attacking it and getting through it to the steel and restarting the corrosion problem. Putting the tank upside down means the blob is permanently above fuel level and is less susceptible to attack.

Tank petcock.
Buy a rebuild kit, they are cheap. Also buy a new filter "sock" for it - that is the only fuel filter an airhead needs.

Carbs
Before spending a fortune on new parts, these carbs are VERY durable. If you have the "pissing fuel on your boot" problem, firstly turn your fuel tap off when you stop - your carbs are not petcocks (Bing told me so). If you have a persistent leak, take the float bowl off and jiggle the floats up and down a 1/2 dozen times and see if that cures it. This can take a while, I foolishly let my fuel system dry out and when I went for a ride last weekend I had to stop 11 times and do as above until all the crap in the fuel lines was flushed through. Obviously if you still have problems after the above, put a kit through your carbs. Do not wimp out on replacing he butterfly shaft o-rings, they are important. Do one  carb at a time as many components are "handed" - mixing handed components is bad....Very bad.

Further rant later.
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #14 - 09/26/18 at 20:23:05
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You will have to dissemble the caliper and measure the piston  to know for sure what kit you need

All of these Brembo  calipers look the same but have different piston diameters
« Last Edit: 09/26/18 at 21:26:22 by Mrclubike »  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #15 - 09/26/18 at 20:24:45
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Hopefully it will measure 38mm and you can get the very inexpensive Brembo 38mm kit

here is the link to the complete caliper if yours are to far gone
They are standard Moto Guzzi parts
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_115&products_i...

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_115&products_i...
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #16 - 09/26/18 at 20:27:42
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The ATE is  what you  had originally
Like yours I have installed a standard 38mm Brembo F08 in its place
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #17 - 09/27/18 at 03:40:18
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Matt Chapter wrote on 09/26/18 at 09:37:47:
TomHoldom wrote on 09/24/18 at 11:39:06:
b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?


I'd find an AGM battery instead, they last longer and require zero maintenance for about the same price.


Looks to me like the Power King PK-12180 replacement batteries are AGM's.

  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #18 - 09/27/18 at 13:12:29
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Thanks all again,

OIL
stripped drive shaft fill - obviously needs a repair in the long term.....presumably that means taking apart to get access to drill out etc?
Having finally managed to remove the plug from this location (previously it was just turning), is there a temp / bodge fix I could get away with in the  short term...?

the oil filter I have taken out is the 'bendy' 2 part type, but I am ordering the 'straight' type to replace - is this ok?

Oil that came out of the engine was 'clean' looking, so I don't think I'll remove

FRONT BRAKE CALIPERS
got the calipers apart; condition doesn't look too bad? (see photos), the pistons aren't jammed, I can compress both sides and a bit of residual fluid gurgles - should I be able to remove them?
They appear to measure 36mm diameter - is this bad news? I think someone mentioned the 38 was more commen and cheaper for parts?
That said the condition doesn look bad, but as you know I'm no expert; could you have a quick look at the photos and tell me what you think - pads have still got plently on them......

MASTER CYLINDER
Got this apart, but things here look less good - see photos...salvagable?
Its maybe looking like I'll have to 'upgrade' to a square. Motobins tell me that part 61126 THROTTLE ASSEMBY WITH MASTER CYLINDER is compatible with my twin disk brembos - at cost of £258,60....! May be the way to go?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #19 - 09/27/18 at 13:34:12
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and a couple of master cylinder photos
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #20 - 09/27/18 at 14:50:11
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Quote:
OK here goes; I'm pretty much a novice so please excuse my ignorance.
I have a 1978 R65 which I bought around 20 years ago, used on and off for 10 years, then left for 10 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery obviously dead, but a friend hooked it up to their car and managed to get the engine to splutter back to life.


In parallel:-
Mine is a 1985 R65LS bought 25 years ago, used on an off for 10 years then left 15 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery was dead but hooking up to a leisure battery it sputtered into life.

Mine is now in bits, Engine out, barrels and heads off being aqua blasted, frame awaiting powder coating.  Bottom end looks in good shape.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #21 - 09/27/18 at 21:40:16
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take the pistons completely out to measure
Maybe the outer  rim is smaller than the piston itself
That fluid looks really bad
Looks like water contamination 
I suspect the MC bore is bad
I suspect the caliper bores are pitted also
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #22 - 09/28/18 at 03:46:18
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Hello Mrclubike,
any tips on how to get caliper pistons out - as I say, they move in and out, but I'm not familiar with these bits, so I'm nervous about damaging something.

Attached is a photo of the MC bore and piston after a soak in some slightly less old fluid - Look slightly less awful, but I'm thinking with the amount other dodgy bits with this MC; reservoir cap screws had to be drilled out as 2 out of 3 were spinning without coming out, diaphragm knackered, fluid leak even before I stopped using the bike 12 years ago, etc.... that it might be sensible to renew for the square reservoir?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #23 - 09/28/18 at 03:55:47
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A bit late now but I would have pumped them out before draining the fluid.  I've refilled the system before now to get a stubborn one out.  Other methods include using compressed air taking care the piston doesn't become a missile.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #24 - 09/28/18 at 16:21:52
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Put a piece of wood in place of the "rotor" and put some compressed air to the inlet.  Make sure your fingers are clear when doing this...
  

Justin B.

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #25 - 09/28/18 at 19:05:59
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If the caliper pistons are really stuck (and being Brembos I'd be surprise if they were) You can run a tap into the gallery that connects the two halves of the caliper and fit a grease nipple.

Using a grease-gun to pump out stuck caliper pistons is something I have done many times, mostly to car brakes, but also to ATE and Tockico calipers (manufacturers who share the unspeakable crime of using chrome plated bright mild steel for pistons).

Messy, but never yet met a piston that successfully resisted.


However, to turn to your immediate problem, I would simply fit an O-ring and put your calipers back together and give them a good flush once you have a working master cylinder. A motorcycle wrecker of my acquaintance tells me that he has seen Brembos sit on his shelf for 20 years and still be useable.

Don't panic about possible bore damage, such damage will likely be on the fluid side of the seal and therefore irrelevant. Spend your time and money on more urgent projects.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #26 - 10/02/18 at 10:50:05
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Hello again

BREMBO CALIPERS
Finally got my calipers pistons out - good news is they look in good condition, less good news is they are 36mm so when I come to need parts it'll cost more...
At the moment I'm just planning to buy new s/s bleed nipples and rubber caps (as recommended by Tony Smith)

MASTER CYLINDER
Looks like this is beyond my powers of repair, so planning to order a new throttle assembly with master cylinder

STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?

MOTOBINS
see below for a list of items on my motobins order I will placing in the next couple of days; let know if you think I should be considering anything else.

Thanks again - all comments appreciated
Tom
  

Screen_Shot_2018-10-02_at_17_47_23.png ( 245 KB | 26 Downloads )
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #27 - 10/02/18 at 13:55:52
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TomHoldom wrote on 10/02/18 at 10:50:05:
STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?



It'a 12 x 1.5.

I've never had to do this but when you get the drive shaft filler plug out you'll see there is very little depth of free space below the threads to use any sort of taper tap and even if there was you would have to devise a means of preventing swarf getting into the housing. Perhaps someone who has done this repair will chip in and say if it's possible in situ or if as I suspect the drive shaft will have to be removed. I think I'd want to use a pillar drill to keep the hole and threads perpendicular to the housing.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #28 - 10/02/18 at 15:03:45
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Barry wrote on 10/02/18 at 13:55:52:
I've never had to do this but when you get the drive shaft filler plug out you'll see there is very little depth of free space below the threads to use any sort of taper tap and even if there was you would have to devise a means of preventing swarf getting into the housing. Perhaps someone who has done this repair will chip in and say if it's possible in situ or if as I suspect the drive shaft will have to be removed. I think I'd want to use a pillar drill to keep the hole and threads perpendicular to the housing.


It is not possible to do in situ. More to the point, unless you are very,very lucky there is no little metal there that a "proper" repair may require welding and re-drilling.

My wife's bike has been wearing a rubber bung in place of the "fill" screw since the early 90s. Water doesn't get in and only a little gear oil manages to migrate out to remind me that one day I must get  a round to fixing it properly. I am about to pull that final drive to replace seals and at least the big bearing (and on past experience probably every bearing bar the input "sleeve" bearings which just never seems to fail on the older airheads). As I will have it stripped to a bare housing I'll take it into town and have it welded and drilled for a new bolt.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #29 - 10/02/18 at 16:01:25
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The repair I did I drilled and then used a "bottoming" tap and JB-Welded the insert into the final.  On the drill and tap just use a bunch of sticky grease and most, if not all, of the chips will stick to it.
  

Justin B.

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #30 - 10/02/18 at 21:00:27
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I think I wold try to go towards a repair Like Justin suggested
See if you can drill the original plug out big enough to allow it to be used as a thread repair insert and just JB weld it in
You may be able to drill   it  out enough to get a 8mm bolt in it

Darn Helciols can be tricky
  

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #31 - 10/03/18 at 03:21:02
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Mrclubike wrote on 10/02/18 at 21:00:27:
Darn Helciols can be tricky


If I were to even try to do this I'd use a cut down tinesert rather than a helicoil.

  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #32 - 10/03/18 at 06:28:02
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Justins repair was very neat. You are only going to be putting a maximum of 150 cc of oil in so it doesn't need a big fill hole.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #33 - 10/03/18 at 06:59:55
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Hi Tony,
I think I'll go down your 'temporary' rubber bung solution for the time being. Just trying to source the right one - do you think a tapered rubber bung 9mm diam and 11,5mm diam x 20mm ht would be about right?
I'll add Justin's or the Helicoil solutions to my phase 2 list.....

For cleaning up the calipers, do I use break fluid and an old toothbrush?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #34 - 10/08/18 at 01:05:42
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Just adding a post to bring this topic back to the current board as it was before I deleted a post I made, to start a new topic.  Somehow Tom's R65 resurrection topic disappeared off the board too.
  

 1985 Black R65  -  1983 Ducati Pantah 500 - 2001 DRZ400 dirt only
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #35 - 10/08/18 at 02:12:38
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TomHoldom wrote on 10/03/18 at 06:59:55:
Hi Tony,
do you think a tapered rubber bung 9mm diam and 11,5mm diam x 20mm ht would be about right?


For cleaning up the calipers, do I use break fluid and an old toothbrush?


If the bung fits tightly whilst still leaving enough material on top for you to grab when you need to remove it, it will be golden.

I've attached a photo of the "bung" in the final driveon the wife's R65/80, ignore the oil weep marks, I am going to rebuild it this week, for some reason I've had to do 3 final drive rebuilds this year, which is more than I've had to do in the previous 40 years of Airhead onwership. The only thing I'll say is that I am now a dab hand at getting the little bastard of a bearing out that carries the "nose" of the pinion shaft, I've borrowed from the old mechanic's cookbook for removing the clutch bearign or bush from the centre of a flywheel - turn up a piece of steel that just fits inside the bush/bearing and then pack as much grease as possible into the bush/bearing. Insert turned steel drift and then smack the end of it smartly with a big hammer, the grease, having nowhere to go, forces the bush/bearing out.

As to cleaning the caliper - whatever floats your boat, just be sure that when to put it back together that you only use clean brake fluid as assembley lube.

  

final_drive_bung.jpg ( 218 KB | 32 Downloads )
final_drive_bung.jpg

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #36 - 10/08/18 at 05:58:47
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thanks Tony
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #37 - 10/11/18 at 05:31:41
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TomHoldom wrote on 10/02/18 at 10:50:05:
Hello again



STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?

Tom


I did this repair.  Here's the final result:  https://advrider.com/f/threads/new-airhead-project.1260761/page-3#post-33742346

Read up a bit in the thread to see how I did it.  No leaks to date.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #38 - 10/16/18 at 10:34:13
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just got my other front disk brake pads out, and this set also have a decent amount of pad left, though a bit more rust/flakey paint on the rear side - is this something to worry about, or can I re-use.
If I need to replace, how can find the correct replacements for 36mm Brembo Calipers?
see photos
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #39 - 10/16/18 at 10:43:58
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Tyres:
should I also assume that tyres have to be changed
see photos
I see these are suggested as a not to pricey option

Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC 
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H

Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC 
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.

any advice appreciated on these
(my usage will be occasional mainly taking it easy around country lanes)
  

IMG_8382.jpg ( 100 KB | 27 Downloads )
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #40 - 10/16/18 at 13:38:54
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Nothing wrong with the original quality of those tires but how old are they ?    You should be able to work it out from the date codes on the side wall.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #41 - 10/16/18 at 13:42:42
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TomHoldom wrote on 10/16/18 at 10:34:13:
just got my other front disk brake pads out, and this set also have a decent amount of pad left, though a bit more rust/flakey paint on the rear side - is this something to worry about, or can I re-use.


In terms of wear those pads are nearly new so I would be inclined to clean them up and repaint the backs.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #42 - 10/19/18 at 13:41:05
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Hi,

Might not be of help now but although really really expensive the 16mm master cylinder from Motorworks fits the lever assembly on a 78-80 R65 which has the round reservoir.

I bought a ‘reconditioned’ lever and master cylinder assembly on eBay, only to find it leaked straight away which meant I had little options  Cry

Andrew
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #43 - 10/19/18 at 13:42:08
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Sorry mean’t to say twin disc although they sell other sizes.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #44 - 10/19/18 at 16:03:47
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My GOD!
The only time an R65 would need a 16mm master cylinder is if you were fitting Brembo 4-spot calipers.

I did the math when I was considering doing just that, BMW use a 17mm or 19mm for those calipers depending on whether you have a K100, K1100 or R1100/1150 and the consensus is that they can be just a little wooden.

I worked out that 16mm gave a nice ratio and 15mm  would be OK once the hand learned moderation.

16mm with Brembo F08s would require horrendous lever pressure in order to work, 13mm is about right for most people, I am currently running twin K100 sourced Brembo 2-spots o a 12mm master cylinder and whilst I'll admit it took a ride or two for the hand to learn moderation, I am now completely happy with it (moderation required because 1 finger can lock the front wheel without raising a sweat)
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #45 - 10/20/18 at 01:39:40
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Thanks Barry,
I've got the DOT refs here; the front is 497, which must be 49th week of 1997, and the rear 499 being the end of 1999........
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #46 - 10/20/18 at 02:48:34
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Yes Tony, wooden would be a good description on how the lever feels especially with the SS lines fitted.

Having spent a small fortune on the brakes inc replacing the calliper seals and lines it will have to do for a while. It’s never going to be a daily ride.

Leaving old fluid in them sitting for years is what probably kills them as not been on the road since 2008.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #47 - 10/20/18 at 04:33:00
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TomHoldom wrote on 10/20/18 at 01:39:40:
Thanks Barry,
I've got the DOT refs here; the front is 497, which must be 49th week of 1997, and the rear 499 being the end of 1999........


You'll want to change them then !

I had those 3 digit codes on my 79 when I bought it at 28 years old and only 6000 miles.  The problem with the 3 digit codes was you couldn't tell which decade they dated from. The front was so rock hard it was obviously original and I replaced it immediately but the rear looked good with no cracks and had so much tread left I initially thought it was a later tyre and rode on it for several thousand miles. When it refused to wear out I changed that as well.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #48 - 10/20/18 at 07:30:58
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ok. These seem reasonably priced in France - d'you think they'll be ok?
Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H

Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #49 - 10/20/18 at 07:46:51
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Any tips on getting the last bolt undone to get my calipers apart?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #50 - 10/20/18 at 15:36:56
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Put them back on the bike and then jump on that extension bar you have there, after first soaking it with a 50/50 mix of Acetone and ATF for a few days.

A bit of heat would probably help the process too.

Replace bolts with Stainless Steel ones and use anti-seize on them.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #51 - 10/22/18 at 10:30:24
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I didn't see that anyone had mentioned new tires. When I bought my bike it had 10 year old tires on it with less than 1000 miles on them. The bike was so squirrelly that I though that I had forgotten how to ride a motorbike. New tires and shocks made a world of difference. Lesson learned, tread depth is not the only thing to check. The month and year of manufacture is stamped on the side of the tire if you look long enough.
  

1984 R65 60K+
1946 Triumph Speed Twin

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #52 - 10/22/18 at 23:06:49
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Yeah, tires are close to the top of my list of things to change on a "new" bike.  The last three used motorcycles I've had had a head-shake at about 40 mph that was "fixed" with new tires...
  

Justin B.

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #53 - 10/24/18 at 11:01:43
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anyone care to comment on these as replacements?
Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H

Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #54 - 10/24/18 at 22:01:45
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Metzelers are spendy tires but I have ridden on bad asphalt in rainy near freezing temp and they have never gone out from under me so I am pretty much sold. The old rock and roll song "the brakes are good, the tires fair" kind of doesn't make it on two wheels. But I still like the song.
  

1984 R65 60K+
1946 Triumph Speed Twin

Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube.  That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #55 - 11/17/18 at 04:27:44
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Oil filter change.
I'm just fitting my replacement oil filter and have 2 spare washers from the motobins kit - see photos - are these necessarily required?
  

IMG_8487.jpg ( 235 KB | 28 Downloads )
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #56 - 11/17/18 at 04:54:32
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I'll be interested too.  I could not find a place for the big metal "shim" either.  Nothing like that came out of the old one.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #57 - 11/17/18 at 05:33:42
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also replacing washers to the various sumps.
replacements are copper with a rounded profile, and originals are flat edged aluminium - see photo.
Am I doing the right thing?

Got  a torque setting for the gearbox sump, but nothing given for the engine oil (which is an allen key, so difficult any way to hook up to my torque wrench....) Not too tight a suppose?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #58 - 11/17/18 at 11:30:15
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I'm sure the copper crush washers will be fine. 

BMW's spec for the sump plug torque is something like 22ftlbs which I consider dangerously high. I go very light with 10 ftlbs for all the fill and drain plugs except the drive shaft which gets a bit less and I've never had one leak or fall out.  You could probably safely go a little higher than 10 but I wouldn't dare use 22 ftlbs. I'd be interested to hear what others use.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #59 - 11/17/18 at 12:50:48
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The large metal washer, commonly called a shim, goes into the oil filter cavity, it sits on the edge of the sleeve in the filter area .
As far as tightening the various fill and drain lugs, you need a light touch with the wrenches, etc ...
You'll find out real quick, that steel fasteners and aluminum threads can become a disaster if over tightened .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #60 - 11/17/18 at 15:30:49
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Copper washers are good they seal with less torque.
I found no use for the smaller oring either.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #61 - 11/17/18 at 19:04:33
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Aethelric wrote on 11/17/18 at 04:54:32:
I'll be interested too.  I could not find a place for the big metal "shim" either.  Nothing like that came out of the old one.


Just because you didn't remove a part when you dissembled it doesn't mean you don't need it
Previous owners are notorious for screwing things up   Angry

The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out  you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it 

But the best info is here at Snowbums tech articles
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/technical-articles-list.htm

After you are there scroll down to the Mechanical section and then to Line 51a
Every Airhead owner should be aware of the issue with properly  installing an oil filter
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #62 - 11/17/18 at 20:52:55
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Looking at the o-ring assortment, I think the smaller black o-ring, may be for the oil dipstick .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #63 - 11/18/18 at 07:44:02
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Quote:
The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out  you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it 


Thanks for that mrclubbike. Checking on Antons site it seems I need the shim, but not the gasket.(Canister depth is 3.5mm) When I dismatled it there was a gasket but no shim. 
The old O ring (black not white in my case) had obviously been installed with some sort of sealant. So it is now reassembled with no gasket, and one shim, torqued up to hand tight with a T spanner and loctited (I don't believe in lock washers.

The black 30mm O ring fits the filler plug and the 20mm copper crush washer fits the drain plug.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #64 - 11/18/18 at 13:06:10
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None of the fill or drain plugs use a rubber o-ring, they all use metal washers .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #65 - 11/18/18 at 23:33:53
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some Dip sticks use the Oring
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #66 - 11/18/18 at 23:35:52
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Aethelric wrote on 11/18/18 at 07:44:02:
Quote:
The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out  you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it 


Thanks for that mrclubbike. Checking on Antons site it seems I need the shim, but not the gasket.(Canister depth is 3.5mm) When I dismatled it there was a gasket but no shim. 
The old O ring (black not white in my case) had obviously been installed with some sort of sealant. So it is now reassembled with no gasket, and one shim, torqued up to hand tight with a T spanner and loctited (I don't believe in lock washers.

The black 30mm O ring fits the filler plug and the 20mm copper crush washer fits the drain plug.


Very glad you Fixed it  Grin
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #67 - 12/01/18 at 04:17:37
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Hello Again -
my new SLA battery has arrived and I want to check whether I will be ok using my 12 V car basic car battery charger (bought from halfords around 10 years ago).
Read about risk of damage if over charged

Thanks
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #68 - 12/01/18 at 04:32:14
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The only thing thing to worry about on a sealed battery is continuing excessively high charge voltage once the battery has reached full charge. 

A wet cell battery will gas once fully charged but a sealed battery will eventually vent on the pressure relief valve which will shorten it's life. 

So you can use any charger on an SLA battery provided you monitor charge voltage and don't allow it to exceed the manufacturers recommendation. In the absence of a manufacturers figure 14.5 volts would be safe.  And then when it reaches full charge take it off.

Conversely leaving an SLA on an unregulated charger which might easily reach 16 volts or more once the battery reached full charge would be the kiss of death.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #69 - 12/01/18 at 06:51:50
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ok thanks Barry
I wont leave too long.
Any idea how long a first charge might take, and can I rely on the 'ready' indicator light as a safe voltage check, or would I be better off using a voltmeter?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #70 - 12/01/18 at 09:14:30
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If the charger has a ready light then it's not an old unregulated type so it should be safe.   It's right to charge a new battery before putting it into service but it shouldn't need much at all.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #71 - 01/10/19 at 11:31:21
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I'm about to order my tyres from my 1978 R65 and wondering whether I need to be concerned about not have a 'matching' pair

I don't want to spend too much and at the moment I'm hesitating between:
Front tyre: Metzeler ME22 90/90 - 18 (57P) (€29)
Front tyre: Metzeler ME22 - 3.25-18 59P. (€39)

Rear tyre: Metzeler LASERTEC 110/90 - 18 (61H) TL (€88)
Rear tyre: Metzeler PERFECT ME77 4.00R18 64 H (€89)

any advice appreciated

(existing old tyres are,  front: 90/90 - 18.51 H & rear: 120/90 H18)

Thanks
Tom
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #72 - 01/10/19 at 14:50:39
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TomHoldom wrote on 01/10/19 at 11:31:21:
rear: 120/90 H18)



You may well fid that to fit a 120/90 that a modified spacer kit has been fitted to the rear wheel to move it to the left somewhat. Nothing wrong with that except that if the drive splines in the hib and wheel have taken a "set" it isn't really reversible.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #73 - 01/17/19 at 01:46:01
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ok thanks Tony, I'll have a look for that - if I upload a photo of the rear wheel would you be able to tell whether a spacer has been fitted?
Is the issue of having a matching pair important - the website I was looking to buy the tyres said I have to have a matching pair?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #74 - 01/17/19 at 06:02:50
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You will need to measure the spacer to see if it is longer than standard - not a difficult task.

Tyres that are meant to be used as a pair should be used as such. The problem is sorting out tyres that are genuine pairs from those that are marketing hype.

Some 120/90s will fit, some will not. Unfortunately with the steady disappearance of "inch" tyres and the ever bigger tyres being fitted to new bikes the 110/90 which is a pretty much guaranteed fit has all but disappeared, other than for really ghastly tyres like Shinko.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #75 - 04/02/19 at 09:54:15
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Just cut my finned exhaust nuts off, to find that I don't have the 'normal' (according to my Haynes Manual) compression ring and clamp ring arrangement, but just a single ring - see photo.
The thread on the cylinder looks pretty good (though I haven't cleaned all the old crap out yet), but when I offered up my shiny new finned nuts (motobins) its not an obvious match.
It might just be that a need to clean the thread, but is there a chance the I have a different thread on my new finned nuts?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #76 - 04/02/19 at 11:04:01
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I would check part numbers for the finned nut across the model range, it may be that they changed, although I would be surprised if they did.  Of course, the exhaust nut is different from other air heads, so you may have the wrong one.

Of course, when you install the new nut, use some anti-seize so the next mechanic in doesn't have to cut this one off.
  

'86 R65 with '84 motor ~66000 miles.  SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles.  Weepy SS lines, big dent in the tank.
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #77 - 04/02/19 at 13:45:33
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I don't know the specifics but remember a couple of things from reading.  As usual, the R65 is a little different than the others.
The finned nuts on the R65's are smaller than the other models (I can't remember if the small version was used on other models or not).
I'm pretty sure that there is only one other piece involved, the gasket that goes up against the head.  I've heard of other models that have a multi-piece thing but the R65's just have one.
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #78 - 04/02/19 at 17:41:13
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The single clamp ring is correct for the R65, except for the very early 78/79 models which had the same arrangement as the bigger bikes. BUT, if the nut has been changed on the earlier bikes, the baulk ring will have been discarded as the later nut bears directly on the clamp ring.
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #79 - 04/02/19 at 20:47:32
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Clean your threads up with a thread file and you should be OK
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #80 - 04/03/19 at 03:08:56
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Thanks for the replies - I've checked and it must be the correct nut, so I'll just get on with cleaning - Do you know what pitch the thread is?
Also trying to replace the crossover pipe which is not wanting to come off - any tricks to get this apart?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #81 - 04/03/19 at 07:09:46
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TomHoldom wrote on 04/03/19 at 03:08:56:
Also trying to replace the crossover pipe which is not wanting to come off - any tricks to get this apart?


Alternate heat and freeze spray, along with lots of 50/50 ATF and Acetone. Once you start getting a little movement you are getting there.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #82 - 04/04/19 at 01:20:08
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For putting back together, I'll be getting some copper anti-seal for the finned nuts. Is there anything recommended for the cross over pipe?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #83 - 04/04/19 at 03:43:29
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Mrclubike wrote on 04/02/19 at 20:47:32:
Clean your threads up with a thread file and you should be OK


+1 for a thread file. I cleaned up a very worn stub enough with a thread file to hold a finned nut to a decent torque. It was much more worn than yours from what I can tell from your photo.
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #84 - 04/04/19 at 12:13:49
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I'm going to need to get the bike imported from england (originally registered in 1980) to france where I now live - Any pointers on how best to achieve this would be appreciated.
I understand that the first thing I need to do is get a certificate of conformity and this is best done in england rather than in france - does that sound about right?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #85 - 04/06/19 at 05:14:08
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Further to my last post
Am I right in understanding, that the reflector and the glass (lens) will need to be changed for RHD?

I've started a searching on German ebay, which should be a good  starting place.
If they do insist on getting km on the speedo, does anyone know if the gearing will be the same for the km and miles versions for the R65, and whether there is a way to somehow just change the plate with the speed markings on it? (There is a "for spares" km speedo on german ebay for €30.....and a working one for €169, but even though the references are both W793, the position of the markings appears to be different, so this might be difficult...?)
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #86 - 04/06/19 at 08:51:57
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After a bit more research on the ratio (W value) on the speedo with mine being W = 1276, the km equivalent is W= 793, so in theory any continental speedo with this value should give the correct speed.....
I've found someone selling what I need in France, he has asked me to make him an offer - any suggestions on a good price to offer appreciated - I suspect he is taking his machine apart to turn into a cafe racer....
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #87 - 04/08/19 at 04:21:13
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torque settings for 1979 R65.

Does anyone know of an online resource for torque settings?
I have the haynes manual, but there's only limited info.
Specifically looking for Front Disk brake values which I'm re-installing after having taken apart)
Also about to clean up my flat top carbs, so any info on that would be useful - thanks
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #88 - 04/08/19 at 11:35:46
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If you mean the bolts that fasten the caliper halves together there isn't a published torque value on the basis that you are not supposed to split them.  When I did mine I used a low figure, somethinh like 15-20ftlbs.

To my knowledge there are no torque value for flat top bings either.  As there is nothing that needs to be particularly tight I just go by feel and tighten everything lightly.  In particular don't overtigniten the main jet holders or the top cover screws.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection - flat top Bing carb ajustement
Reply #89 - 04/12/19 at 02:09:51
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Thanks to everybodys help to date, yesterday I enjoyed my first (very small) ride on my 1979 R65!
Heres what I now need to do:
After rebuilding the calipers and replacing the master cylinder, I filled the system to find one of the seals is gone on the right hand Brembo Caliper - unfortunately I have the 36mm piston so I set of seals will set me back £42,60 (before post....!)
Next issue is adjusting the carbs - is this possible without the proper kit?
Any information / guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - front brake hose replacement
Reply #90 - 04/12/19 at 03:23:44
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Also can anyone recommend any replacement (braided SS) hose for the front brake (1 x 12,5 cm and 2 x 19,5 inches) - motobins that would cost around £75 - Sounds pricey - anyone know of another place to buy (in europe).
Should I be installing copper sealing washer at every junction, or just at the master cylinder?
Thanks
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #91 - 04/13/19 at 23:19:58
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I installed the HEL lines sold by Motobins, but bear in mind that the set I bought that was on special at the tiem was for a K100.

I am super impressed and would pay the premium for HEL lines, the angle adjusters are very, very clever.

The copper washers go on each side of EVERY banjo fitting.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #92 - 04/14/19 at 08:04:09
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Is is essentially every junction of the hose requires a copper washer (I don't think I have banjo fittings) or is the copper washer needed because of a banjo fitting?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #93 - 04/14/19 at 11:34:40
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I didn't see any marked as Hel on their site.  Is there a choice or is Hel just the ones they use that have no name?  I did see Venhill listed as a specific brand.
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #94 - 04/14/19 at 12:03:02
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Here's a link to what banjo fittings look like, in case you're not sure what you have .


https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/cycle-brake-line-ki...
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #95 - 04/14/19 at 12:32:50
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I hadn't looked closely before, but I see know that the hoses from motobins do have these banjo connections - will they connect up with the existing metal pipes. The banjo fittings look like they'll come of perpendicular to the line of the hose. My current set up connects directly in line (hose and pipe).....sorry if I'm being dumb.
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #96 - 04/14/19 at 12:41:32
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No, banjo fittings will not work with the stock metal pipes at  the caliper area .
I had this issue when I changed the OEM rubber lines in '91, for my '81 R65, everything I saw and ordered, had banjo fittings .

I was going on vacation in the southern California area, an aftermarket parts supplier ( Luftmeister) told me to stop by with my brake lines and he could make up a set while I waited, only took 15 minutes to fabricate the three lines I needed .
Don't know if you have a company in the EU area that could perform this work .
« Last Edit: 04/14/19 at 13:58:06 by Bob_Roller »  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
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Re: R65 Resurrection -tank re-lining
Reply #97 - 04/19/19 at 03:25:43
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I have put about 18 litres of 3,5% acetic acid into my tank and am turning and agitating occasionally to help the process of cleaning out the old crap inside before I line with POR 15.
I've read various advice on how long this process should continue - would 7 days be good?
Also, I'm assuming as this is a fairly dilute solution that any drip I get on the external paintwork can just be wiped off without the need for excessive cleaning and neutralisation - is that right, or do I need to clean off more thoroughly.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - speedo exchange
Reply #98 - 04/19/19 at 07:55:38
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Hello again - I have to get a km speedo as part of the import process of my uk R65 to france.
I've found one which looks in pretty good condition, but its for a R65/7 so a little different (see photo)
Has anyone any experience of fitting this type of dials onto a R65 from 1980 (which also has the ignition key included into the plastic surround)?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #99 - 04/19/19 at 17:30:45
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The instrument cluster you have a picture of, is from a monoshock R65 .

If you look at the bottom of the instrument face,your original speedometer will have something like W=1357, or some other number, you need to match the new speedometer that has the same number, or the speedometermay have a significant inaccuracy .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection -tank re-lining
Reply #100 - 04/19/19 at 17:56:10
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TomHoldom wrote on 04/19/19 at 03:25:43:
I have put about 18 litres of 3,5% acetic acid into my tank and am turning and agitating occasionally to help the process of cleaning out the old crap inside before I line with POR 15.

Also, I'm assuming as this is a fairly dilute solution that any drip I get on the external paintwork can just be wiped off without the need for excessive cleaning and neutralisation


I treated my tank a few weeks ago with a similar process, although my kit used phosphoric acid rather than acetic acid for the rust conversion step. The other step is a degreaser. The actual liner is impossible to remove once it cures, so you need to make sure that it doesn’t contact any of the painted surfaces because you won’t get it off.

My Klm R65 speedo (‘83) is coded W793 on the front face, which is that same as the one you’ve posted so you might be ok as long as the mounts and electrical wiring connections etc are all the same?


  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #101 - 04/19/19 at 18:21:27
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I have no idea, if the monoshock instrument cluster will fit or not .

I relined three fuel tanks, 2 R65 and one Moto Guzzi .

I found 9% acid vinegar, it took around 3 weeks to get all the rust out, the tanks I had, looked like an old exhaust system inside, but I did get all the rust removed .

Only issue I had, was rinsing the vinegar out of the tank with water, I got flash rusting .

I used phosphoric acid to etch the tank before using POR 15 and used denatured alcohol to rinse the acid, going on 10 years and no issues with the lining coming out .

Only problem area, was the drain tube from the filler area, it was difficult to get that tube covered completely .

The POR 15 sealant is very strong smelling I would do it in an area with good ventilation . 
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #102 - 04/19/19 at 18:45:50
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Bob_Roller wrote on 04/19/19 at 17:30:45:
If you look at the bottom of the instrument face,your original speedometer will have something like W=1357, or some other number, you need to match the new speedometer that has the same number, or the speedometermay have a significant inaccuracy .


I wonder if anyone has come across a listing of the specs for all these speedos and codes Bob? I’ve got an R45 speedo that I’m going to try out, just to see. My original speedo doesn’t have a functioning odometer.

I treated my BSA M21 tank with a liner solution about 25 years ago and it was very rusty internally. I’ve never had a carb blockage since. It’s a pretty effective treatment.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - speedo W ratio
Reply #103 - 04/20/19 at 04:34:24
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Thanks for all the advice.
My existing speedo has a value of W = 1276, which means I need to find a speedo in kms with a W = 793 to give the correct reading.
I expect its going to be simpler to replace like with like - my plastic surround is a bit knackered - see photo -Do you think this is going to be possible to glue (got some J-B Weld)? For cleaning this surround just soap and water?

For the tank, I'll leave soaking for a little longer - there's no rust, just flaky lining which need to come out.
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #104 - 04/20/19 at 23:31:27
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Hmm, not pretty is it.... You could glue it, (you would need to reinforce the back side of the break) but it’s never going to perfect. It’s probably a bit too far gone.

I’ve been looking for one as well for my bike and although there is nothing on eBay presently, there are a few of them turning up in other places. They are one of the first parts to get discarded by custom builders, and there seems to be no shortage of those, so a nice one will turn up sooner or later.

You could probably glue that one back up and press it into service until something else turns up. Superglue would be my weapon of choice.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #105 - 04/21/19 at 03:09:32
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A Gel type superglue would be my suggestion.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #106 - 04/21/19 at 05:33:46
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On my 1980 R65 I used the stainless hoses listed on motorbins as they are a direct replacement for the standard rubber hoses.

The top one is dependent on handlebar type/height, I would also change the small metal pipes as well if funds allow.

I have the twin disk set up and Brembo calipers.

Andy
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - Brembo Caliper overhaul kit
Reply #107 - 05/01/19 at 02:40:06
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Hello all
My latest motobins order has just arrived which included new brake hoses and overhaul kits for my 38mm Brembo calipers, but I'm concerned I may have got the wrong kit because the size of the seal is larger than my piston - it slips over with a 0,5mm of play...? Can this be possible (I haven't tried inserting them into the cylinder yet in case I need to sell on). However the other components are correct: dust seals have the same reference (20 2246 10) and bolts fit and are the same length.
Any thoughts on whether I have correct kit?
Thanks, Tom

UPDATE: Motobins have concerned confirmed that this is normal.
« Last Edit: 05/02/19 at 02:37:14 by TomHoldom »  

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Re: R65 Resurrection -tank re-lining
Reply #108 - 05/01/19 at 02:49:54
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I have also completed the relining of the tank and am now getting the necessary flow out of my petcock; took it for a little spin (just up to second gear on a private track) which showed plently of adjustments to be made, but the engine was running  Smiley
Later in the day I tried to start up again (I'm quite excited and show everyone who visits...), but not firing at all suddenly.
After I few minutes I noticed that one of the spark plug cables was loose, and realised that it had come disconnected from its ignition coil. I reconnected it, but still nothing.

Could trying to start with this cable disconnected caused electrical damage?
I've checked, and I am still getting a spark on both sides (though the plug was a little sooty)

Any potential diagnoses appreciated
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #109 - 05/01/19 at 16:02:59
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TomHoldom wrote on 05/01/19 at 02:49:54:
Could trying to start with this cable disconnected caused electrical damage?


Without reading all through the thread I'm assuming this is a early model with points ignition.

Running an ignition coil open circuit is potentially damaging because it allows the coil to develop it's maximum HT voltage which can lead to insulation breakdown.  The risk of damage is less though on a points ignition.  Another factor is the battery voltage will have been pulled down to 10 volts or so while cranking the engine which puts less stress on the coil compared with pulling a plug lead on a running engine where it could be 14 volts.

The probability is no damage has been done.  Lets put it this way, I accidently cranked the engine with open circuit HT leads about 10 years ago and it's still running fine on the same coils.   
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection - flat top Bing carb ajustement
Reply #110 - 05/01/19 at 22:51:23
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TomHoldom wrote on 04/12/19 at 02:09:51:

  unfortunately I have the 36mm piston so I set of seals will set me back £42,60 (before post....!)
Next issue is adjusting the carbs - is this possible without the proper kit?
Any information / guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.


If you have 36 mm pistons you have the wrong kit

You need this kit
  

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Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #111 - 05/01/19 at 23:32:50
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With regard to the messages above, I bought the caliper repair kits from Bob's BMW in Jessup, Maryland.  Ordered by phone with my handy-dandy VISA; they were here within one week, because another part I ordered at the same time had to be sourced out of the BMW warehouse. Costs were as shown on the BMW fiche they have on-line (can't remember the cost now).

I also learned that their policy is that if you are ordering at least $100 worth of parts, the shipping is free.  On a later order, I ordered on a Thursday morning and the parts were here in Nashville, TN, in my mailbox by Saturday afternoon (they ship by Fed Ex and then the ground delivery is by US Mail).  Best parts service I have ever gotten.....
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - flat top Bing carb ajustement
Reply #112 - 05/02/19 at 02:35:48
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Mrclubike wrote on 05/01/19 at 22:51:23:
TomHoldom wrote on 04/12/19 at 02:09:51:

  unfortunately I have the 36mm piston so I set of seals will set me back £42,60 (before post....!)
Next issue is adjusting the carbs - is this possible without the proper kit?
Any information / guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.


If you have 36 mm pistons you have the wrong kit

You need this kit

Hello MrClubike - in fact I had initially thought it was 36mm as I was trying to measure without removing the piston, but once removed I saw it was 38mm - Motobins have confirmed a little play is normal before the seal is inserted into the groove - so looks like I've got the right kit.......
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - not starting.......
Reply #113 - 05/03/19 at 03:57:45
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hello again,
I'm still struggling to get my 1979  R65 to start again (or even fire).
Here's a quick recap of where I am:
Bike sat unused for 12 years under cover, so over the last few months I've slowly been getting things back in shape.
So far:
1/ tank re-lined and petlock cleaned out
2/ carburetors cleaned  / rebuilt
3/ Front brakes re-built (including replacement of old circular master cylinder with square model, new pipes, piston seals).
4/ new battery
I had the engine running again after rebuidling the carbs, but before re-lining the tank, but obviously the fuel supply quickly blocked again at the petlock filter.

Then on Monday after re-lining the tank (and letting it dry for 4 days), I had the engine running ok for a good 10 mins (riding up and down a private track), but later that day the bike would not start - and this is where I am stuck....
ideas of where to start my search appreciated.

So far I have checked fuel supply to carbs which is good, and the floats appear to be closing off the flow at the correct height (parallel with carb body).
I have checked that the spark plugs are sparking.

but I'm not sure what to do next.
I'm thinking I may need to take the carbs apart again to check whether any crud got pulled through the petlock filter during the couple of times I had it running between rebuilding the carbs and re-lining the tank...
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #114 - 05/03/19 at 10:16:41
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TomHoldom wrote on 05/03/19 at 03:57:45:
but I'm not sure what to do next.


Before I tore the carbs apart I would squirt a little fuel in the inlets to see if you can get a pop or two. This would prove you have enough spark to fire the mixture.

Remember that these are two little separate motors hooked to the same shaft. To have both carbs go silent in the same fashion and at the same time is long odds, if it isn't caused by a common fuel feed.
  

Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
1972  R75        
1964 R50
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #115 - 05/03/19 at 20:25:32
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Start simple, is the ' KILL ' switch in the OFF position ??
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #116 - 05/04/19 at 06:18:50
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wilcom wrote on 05/03/19 at 10:16:41:
Before I tore the carbs apart I would squirt a little fuel in the inlets to see if you can get a pop or two. This would prove you have enough spark to fire the mixture.


Hello wilcom, I tried as you suggested, and didn't get very conclusive results, but it appears to me I may be having a problem with the quality of the spark.
This is what I observed after adding a teaspoon of fuel to each carb (tested separately)

Left cylinder - no pop
Right cylinder - a couple of pops, then nothing.
On removing the plugs directly after the test there was a little smoke which came from the left cylinder (which I assume means the left cylinder fired?).
Then tested the left spark - and no spark.....
Any ideas?

fitting instrument surround
On a separate issue, I've managed to find a better condition instrument surround, and need some advice on fitting. Specifically how to engage the tabs on the underside which engage somehow with the bracket which bolts onto the handlebar mounting (the bracket which also holds the front brake hose) - see photo

I bought from the same guy a speedo in km (with the correct W value) and a complete front light which were both apparently off a 1979 R65.
The speedo looks ok (apart from a slightly worrying rattle...), but the light to larger than mine. This light has a 185mm diameter - see photo - does anyone know what bike this may be from?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #117 - 05/04/19 at 19:53:30
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If you have a week spark
First
Check for good battery  Positive  at the Green/Blue wire at the coil during cranking
check the wire between the coils

Check the spark plug wires
I think they are 1000 ohm caps plus solid core wires


check for corrosion in the   connectors in the ignition system
 

If all looks good Change the Points And Condenser
« Last Edit: 05/05/19 at 00:03:59 by Mrclubike »  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #118 - 05/04/19 at 22:11:04
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The first generation bikes, 79-80 have contact breaker ignition systems from the factory and two ignition coils .

I suggest after you check for corrosion, do a resistance check of the coil circuits .

I mentioned before, the main grounding point for all the bikes circuits, are at the forward ignition coil mounting bracket, it's not uncommon the clamp cracks  and causes electrical issues .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection - starting problem
Reply #119 - 05/06/19 at 12:24:03
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hello again.
since my last post the bike has started once and after 4 days of not firing at all.
On that one occasion it stared first time and idled perfectly (unfortunately I could take it for a spin as my front brake was disassembled).
Since then its been almost nothing again (apart from one or 2 pops)
Your right Bob_Roller, my bike still has the 2 separate coils .

I have checked the connections which look ok, and had a go at checking the coils:
For the primary resistances I'm getting 1,7 ohms, for the secondary I'm finding it difficult to get a connection - on one a got a reading of 6,54 K.Ohms, but nothing on the other - though this may be due to it being difficult to get a good connection with my probes as I'm trying to poke into the end of the coil .....or a problem with one of the coils...?

You'll see from the photos they're located a little strangely - one of the brakets seems to have broken at some point and the coil is held on with cables ties - this (perhaps unsurprisingly) is the coil I'm not getting a secondary reading from.

There's also a loose cable which could be some to do with my problems (see photos)
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #120 - 05/06/19 at 12:25:16
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another photo of arrangement beneath tank
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection - coils.....
Reply #121 - 05/07/19 at 09:53:37
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Mrclubike wrote on 05/04/19 at 19:53:30:
Check for good battery  Positive  at the Green/Blue wire at the coil during cranking
check the wire between the coils

Check the spark plug wires
I think they are 1000 ohm caps plus solid core wires


check for corrosion in the   connectors in the ignition system


OK here are the first of readings I have got:
rear mounted coil: 11,48V, reducing to 9,5V while cranking
front mounted coil: 5,88V, increasing to 6,6V while cranking

then testing the spark again, I am now getting
spark from the front coil
no spark from the rear coil.
(I swapped the spark plug leads around and this didn't change the results - i.e. still no spark from rear coil. So I assume those leads are ok)

Also tried to measure the resistance of the connecting cable between the coils, but I can't be sure I was measuring the correct cable as it disappears into a mass of cables bound together, but there is a black and yellow cable between the connection "1" of the rear coil and the connection "15' of the front coil.
I measured a resistance of 0,4 Ω which is presumably wrong...?

Interesting while carrying this testing I had a few more pops than I had been getting before (couldn't tell which side), and the spark plugs were just one or two turns into their chambers

Does any of this make any sense......?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #122 - 05/07/19 at 13:29:41
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TomHoldom wrote on 05/07/19 at 09:53:37:
there is a black and yellow cable between the connection "1" of the rear coil and the connection "15' of the front coil.
I measured a resistance of 0,4 Ω which is presumably wrong...?


Only wrong in the sense that it should be a little closer to zero ohms over such a short length of cable. Multimeters are not very accurate at very low ohms readings so I doubt there is problem. Does the meter zero when the test leads are shorted ?

The voltage readings you took at the coil terminals already suggest that there is nothing wrong with the primary windings of the coils as you would expect to drop approx. 6 volts across each coil.  If one coil is not sparking in spite of the primary winding being OK then I would attempt to measure the resistance of the secondary winding between the HT terminal and either of the primary terminals.  You should expect 7500 Ohms or more.

  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #123 - 05/07/19 at 14:00:14
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Barry wrote on 05/07/19 at 13:29:41:
Does the meter zero when the test leads are shorted ?


Hi Barry, yes meter is at zero when I touch the meter leads.
Isn't odd though to have one rising and the other falling when cranked?
I'll try again to measure the secondary. I managed to read 6540 Ω on one, but could get anything on the other.
Can I stick any bit of metal down into the coil HT cable socket to get a connection and then measure from that to either of the primary terminals?

  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #124 - 05/07/19 at 16:27:51
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TomHoldom wrote on 05/07/19 at 14:00:14:
Can I stick any bit of metal down into the coil HT cable socket to get a connection and then measure from that to either of the primary terminals?


Yes that should be fine.

Technically I think you should measure between the HT and terminal 15  because one end of the secondary winding is connected to 15 but in practice it doesn't matter because using terminal 1 just adds 1.5 ohms to many thousands of ohms which is of no consequence.


  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #125 - 05/07/19 at 23:24:48
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Honestly
I would just replace the points and condenser and replace the 2 coil with one and a fresh set of plugs and wires 
This is just normal maintenance in the days when this bike was new
It was called a tune up
$135 bucks  and your good for another ten years
At least with the ignition  Shocked
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #126 - 05/08/19 at 02:27:55
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Tom,
Go at any car scrap yard and ask for a two output coil from a petrol car. Measure the primary to ensure the value is the correct one for your points. It will cost you around 10 € will be available now and will last a lifetime. If the guy is helpfull, you could choice the one with the better fitting system for your bike.
I devised something with a Fiat  Punto coil (magneti Marelli ) for my Hall and ICU ignition system.
Just my 2 ¢
BTW, did you get the registration papers ?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - started....
Reply #127 - 05/08/19 at 07:19:16
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Update -
took some new readings today -
rear mounted coil: primary res = 1.5 Ω, secondary 6,54 KΩ
front mounted coil: primary res = 1.5 Ω, secondary 6,58 KΩ

Resistance of spark plug leads 5,11 KΩ and 4,75 KΩ

checked sparks again and the plug connected to the rear coil was still not sparking (as previously).
I had assumed there were no sparkplug issues as they had only been in a few months and the engine only running 20 minutes during that period, but I put in a new plug which sparked and it started up......

So might have been the issue all along?

Started a few times since then and got it running again (though not easily), on the last occasion I had to turn it off as the engine started racing (with no throttle) - carburetor?
actually I subsequently realized that I was simply running out of petrol...

Also noticed that the left hand side of the engine was warmer than the right - could this be something else to be concerned about?




« Last Edit: 05/08/19 at 11:02:29 by TomHoldom »  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - importing to France
Reply #128 - 05/08/19 at 11:28:58
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georgesgiralt wrote on 05/08/19 at 02:27:55:
BTW, did you get the registration papers ?


Hi Georges,
I've made a little progress in as much I have decided to go down the "vehicle de collection" route (FFVE)- got the dossier together and ready to send off. This should get me my "Certificat d'immatriculation de Collection" which takes the place of the CoC, then onto ANTS and form Cerfa 13750.
The thing I still need is the attestation stating that light and speedo have been changed which an approved dealer should be able to produce, though I haven't had any positive responses yet...
Speedo is changed, and I just need to order an new lens for the front light - BMWBayer has one for €23,99 (Product.Nr. 6312541) so I'll probably go with that.
I like your idea for sourcing coils from a breakers yard and may look into that if things start playing up again.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - started....
Reply #129 - 05/08/19 at 20:53:13
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TomHoldom wrote on 05/08/19 at 07:19:16:

Also noticed that the left hand side of the engine was warmer than the right - could this be something else to be concerned about?


Yes it is
That cylinder is misfiring
  

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #130 - 05/10/19 at 06:08:33
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Mrclubike wrote on 05/08/19 at 20:53:13:
That cylinder is misfiring


So could swapping the spark plug leads and then swapping the coils and seeing whether the fault follows these changes to the other side be a sensible method to see whether this is an electrical problem?

Also, it is the same side that I get a very slow drip from the carburetor if the fuel tap is left on - could this be related to a possible misfiring on this cylinder?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - sooty spark plugs
Reply #131 - 05/11/19 at 04:25:09
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Managed to start this morning, and took it for a short ride (about 2,5km) It's not cold weather
What I noticed on that short ride was that as soon as I tried to turn the choke off the bike would not run smoothly (certainly not full power).
It would run ok again once I put the choke back on.
I tried this a few times during my short journey with the same results.
Once home, I pulled the plugs and both were very sooty.....

Any ideas of what may be causing this???
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #132 - 05/11/19 at 07:30:32
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Sounds like carburetor(s) may have obstructed passages...
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #133 - 05/11/19 at 09:19:07
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tiggum wrote on 05/11/19 at 07:30:32:
Sounds like carburetor(s) may have obstructed passages...

Is there any particular order I should check for blockages - is it oversimplifying things to think that because a sooty sparkplug indicates an overrich mix, that the blockage would be an air blockages?

Also one other issue I had which I have just remembered, is that while rebuilding the carbs with the motobins kit which comes with 5 'o'rings, (with no indication where they go) I found a YouTube video which indicated the smallest 2 rings went on the idle speed screw and the idle jet.
I couldn't get the smallest ring onto the idle jet (it broke), so I figured I was trying the wrong 'o' ring and so took the next size up (which according the video I watched should have gone onto the choke shaft - and which was spare, as I didn't open up the choke) - as I write this its feeling like this could be at least a part of problem........
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #134 - 05/11/19 at 12:23:23
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TomHoldom wrote on 05/11/19 at 09:19:07:
I couldn't get the smallest ring onto the idle jet (it broke), so I figured I was trying the wrong 'o' ring and so took the next size up (which according the video I watched should have gone onto the choke shaft - and which was spare, as I didn't open up the choke) - as I write this its feeling like this could be at least a part of problem........



The O ring itself is not going to cause such a big problem but you have given us a possible clue by mentioning the chokes were not examined. I would remove them to check they are correctly assembled as it's possible a previous owner has not done this correctly. It's worth eliminating anyway.

The internal choke disc has a pear shaped slot which should always be at the top of the disc with the narrow end pointing towards the cylinder head. If they are both like that they are correctly assembled.

If chokes are fine then first thing I'd check is needles are in the correct position.

Pic of choke disc below shown in the fully off position.

Can you clarify exactly when it runs poorly without choke e.g does it idle OK but not run correctly at wider throttle openings.
  

Enricher_O_001.gif ( 41 KB | 7 Downloads )
Enricher_O_001.gif

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #135 - 05/12/19 at 07:32:01
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Thanks for the diagram Barry.
I'll open up the choke and have a look - in fact I am the previous owner (sort of) - I've the bike since 1997 and used for 8 years before moving to france where the bike has not been used for 14 years....

I've got the flat top carbs, for which I think the needles are meant to be 3 clicks in - which is how I put them back. But its possible that this was not there previous setting.....Is it worth trying 2 clicks, or shall I just clean first?

With no choke it doesn't idle or run well at higher speeds.

Thanks for the help
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - better.....
Reply #136 - 05/12/19 at 10:19:41
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Removed the pilot jets - both side blocked, and now running much better.
It was obviously stupid for me to run the engine after rebuilding the carbs and before sorting out the flaky petrol tank!!

Still not idling though, but hopefully this is just a matter of adjusting the idle speed - I'll have a look at this next.

Also noticed I've still got one side hotter than the other.
I swapped the spark plug leads, and it went to the other side so I'll get some new leads on order.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #137 - 05/12/19 at 10:22:42
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The idle jets may need some attention .
The metered orifice at the end can get clogged and is very difficult to tell whether it is clear or not .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #138 - 05/12/19 at 11:05:28
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Bob_Roller wrote on 05/12/19 at 10:22:42:
The idle jets may need some attention .
The metered orifice at the end can get clogged and is very difficult to tell whether it is clear or not .


Is the idle jet the one I've just had out and was referring to the pilot jet?
And is the metering orifice the restricted part of the hole?
Can you recommend a good way of cleaning?

At the moment I've blasted with carb. cleaner and can see through.

  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #139 - 05/12/19 at 11:34:23
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No you cleaned the main jet, the idle jet is just inside the carb from the idle mixture adjustment .
It has a screwdriver slot to remove it .
It's a thin tube with two sets of holes drilled into it the very end of it has the metered hole .

When you check it, use carb cleaner with an extender tube, place it in the hole with the srcewdriver slot, cover the four holes in the tube, the cleaner will come out of the very end if it's clear .
I have not found a sure way of clearing it if it is clogged .
I've got an ultrasonic cleaner now, I'll try that if I ever have this happen again .
I've installed pleated paper element fuel filters and since then no issues .

https://www.chapmoto.com/visu-filter-fuel-filter-861c-315-1916?msclkid=c17101ec3...
« Last Edit: 05/12/19 at 12:35:15 by Bob_Roller »  

20190512_102221.jpg ( 799 KB | 14 Downloads )
20190512_102221.jpg

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #140 - 05/12/19 at 12:56:27
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TomHoldom wrote on 05/12/19 at 11:05:28:
Is the idle jet the one I've just had out and was referring to the pilot jet?


Two names for the same jet.

Strictly speaking this jet supplies the pilot circuit so I call it a pilot jet. It does more than just provide the idle mixture.  As the fuel pass through the jet it gets mixed with air entering from those holes in the side of the jet.  This mixture then passes into the venturi though a small hole restricted by the idle mixture screw. 

I've never had the pilot jet get blocked, if you can see through it it's probably OK.  But I often have problems with the air feed to this jet getting blocked with condensate from the engine breather.   So as well as checking the jet is clear  blow through the air passage from the intake end of the carb. If you look there you will see two small holes near the base. The larger one provides auxiliary air to the needle jet and the smaller one provides auxiliary air to the pilot jet.

You can see how this works diagrammatically on this generic CV carb diagram although here they call it a slow jet.
  

thm_carb4_006.gif ( 36 KB | 12 Downloads )
thm_carb4_006.gif

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #141 - 05/12/19 at 13:09:49
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ok, well the pilot / idle jet has been cleaned, but its probably worth me looking at the main jets again as well?

Still not idling well once warmed up (idles well with choke on).

The cooler side spark plug is sooting up still, and the warmer side looks this - does this look like its getting too hot?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection - on going starting issues
Reply #142 - 05/13/19 at 13:45:36
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Still having intermittent starting issues.
What tends to happen is that unless it starts first time from cold, then it won't start.

Also noticed that the right side is always dry, and the left side often wet.
Is the wet or dry side that is likely to need adjustment and what might the adjustment be....

Over the last few days when I have got it going, it actually runs quite nicely (apart from not idling with no choke once warm)
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #143 - 05/13/19 at 14:58:08
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Starting technique can be an issue at times, half to full 'choke ' don't add any throttle until it fires off .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
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I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #144 - 05/13/19 at 17:29:06
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Have you checked the fuel level in the carbs ? And the fuel flow ?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #145 - 05/14/19 at 04:48:23
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Bob_Roller wrote on 05/13/19 at 14:58:08:
Starting technique can be an issue at times, half to full 'choke ' don't add any throttle until it fires off .

don't think I'm doing anything wrong there - though I am on full choke - I'll try a bit less.

georgesgiralt wrote on 05/13/19 at 17:29:06:
Have you checked the fuel level in the carbs ? And the fuel flow ?

flow is good to carbs, and levels look ok.
I do get a hanging drip appear on the left carb if the petrol is left on.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #146 - 05/14/19 at 04:55:45
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So it seems your fuel valve is not closing well. Worn tip or worn out siege ?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection - main jet
Reply #147 - 05/14/19 at 13:12:09
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Thought I'd pop out my main jet for cleaning while waiting for new spark plug leads to arrive.
Tried to do in-situ with carb on the bike; is it normal that the atomiser doesn't drop out?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #148 - 05/14/19 at 15:09:50
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Not normal but not unusual as the top part sticks up through a hole into the venturi. Depending how tightly it's stuck in the hole you might have to remove the piston and needle to press it out.
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #149 - 05/14/19 at 17:15:22
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Do not leave the fuel tap in the 'ON' position, if you are parking the bike like overnight .
If the float needle doesn't close, fuel seeps into the carb, intake fill a cylinder and also seep into the oil sump .
Also do not let the bike stay on the side stand for extended periods .
You may also want to check to see if the fuel taps actually shuts off fuel flow .
My red LS, the fuel tap in the off position allowed enough fuel to run the engine .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Re: R65 Resurrection - changing headlight glass
Reply #150 - 05/16/19 at 13:44:04
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I'm importing my uk R65 (1979) into France and so need to change the head light glass.
I've got the replacement glass, and wanted to check whether there are any tips to separate the current glass from the reflector? Obviously I'm hoping to to have to replace the rubber gasket....
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #151 - 05/16/19 at 17:04:02
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Well,
The gasket is dead anyway. So I just cut the gasket open, put the glass on a safe place, then carefully clean the reflector rim, then do the same with the old glass in order to be able to reuse it...
I talc the new gasket hoping it will help disassembly next time, but have not tested yet...
Count your fingers before the procedure and ensure you have the same number after the procedure...  Huh
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #152 - 05/16/19 at 17:05:13
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I forgot,
The gasket for the /5 glass is cheaper than the gasket for the R65 and they are identical.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #153 - 05/17/19 at 00:28:32
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Thanks Georges
In fact it looks pretty cheap on Motobins (£4.20) - see attached.
Does that look like the correct piece? I'm sure I saw it somewhere else for over 30€...?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #154 - 05/17/19 at 01:13:04
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georgesgiralt wrote on 05/16/19 at 17:04:02:
The gasket is dead anyway


Do you say this because its likely to be old? - it still feels quite rubbery. But I'm still unsure how to get it apart - is there a technique, start at the metal lug..?
  

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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #155 - 05/17/19 at 01:47:12
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ell, the gasket death is because it is stuck so hard on the reflector. You will cut some piece of it if you pull hard to unstuck from the reflector.
The heath from the bulb heats the reflector and cooks the rubber hard. I never had a chance saving a gasket if it is stuck on the reflector.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #156 - 05/17/19 at 01:48:14
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Forgot,
The cheap one if for /5 an R65. The £30 should be the one for the R65 on the fiche.
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #157 - 05/17/19 at 05:16:55
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Anyone ever try Duane Ausherman's advise on this gasket

https://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/headlight/index.htm

"In the absence of a proper gasket, black plastic, or cloth electrical tape will work.  Probably any "thick" tape would work"?
  
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Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #158 - 05/17/19 at 16:42:51
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Well, the gasket is available from BMW and it's dealers, not too expensive and perfectly suited for the job. I would go OEM here...
Re-reading my post, I see I'm not clear. The cheap one is the /5 one. It fits perfectly the R65 headlight (same diameter and same make). During a long time there was no gasket listed for the R65 in the fiche.
I bet someone asked BMW and they put one on the fiche for a bigger price than the /5 suited one.
Talc the new one it make it slippery. It may help in the future removal.