Page Index Toggle Pages: [1]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) R65 Resurrection (Read 1817 times)
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
R65 Resurrection
09/24/18 at 11:39:06
Post Tools
OK here goes; I'm pretty much a novice so please excuse my ignorance.
I have a 1978 R65 which I bought around 20 years ago, used on and off for 10 years, then left for 10 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery obviously dead, but a friend hooked it up to their car and managed to get the engine to splutter back to life.

So I'm looking for advice on my next moves...

Oil change:
Before I do much else I was planning to change the oils
engine / gearbox / driveshaft / rear bevel ?
Currently with no battery not so easy to get the oil warm, can I do this with a cold engine?
Any advice on which oils?
Planning to buy the motobins oil filter exchange kit (code 01955A) which includes a new filter

b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?

Front Disk brake:
Before I stopping using the bike there was a small leak in the front brake master cylinder. (which has now ruined the paintwork on my front mudguard)
At the moment I’m still stuck with trying to get the reservoir cap off (round type) as 2 of the 3 screws are turning without coming out, but assuming a can remove this, I was going to buy the £40 Motobins “Brake master cylinder overhaul kit (16mm)”, but wondered whether there is anyway of knowing whether this will solve my problem.
At the moment I’m trying to avoid changing to the later square reservoir as I understand I’ll need to change the whole throttle assembly

Fuel supply:
When I disconnect the pipe from the bottom of the fuel tap and turn on the tap, there is only a rapid drip which feels like its not rapid enough and might need clearing. Is there any way simply check my flow rate to check whether I need to disassemble and clean the tap - or is that obviously blocked?

Also on my first motobins order planning to include Carburettor rebuild kit (code: 60020A), and new air filter (code: 03200)

Obviously this just phase one to get the thing rolling again, and I would appreciate any help and advice on the above, and all the obvious stuff I’ve missed….
Thanks
« Last Edit: 09/25/18 at 22:44:22 by Justin B. »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #1 - 09/24/18 at 14:38:14
Post Tools
If all the oils were changed just before putting the bike into storage I would run the bike to get everything hot before changing them.  New oil doesn't deteriorate that much in storage, particular the transmission oils which don't have the source of contamination that the engine does.

If the oils weren't fresh then change the engine oil without doubt  before running the engine even if that means a cold oil change.  If the oil comes out looking terrible then you might want to drop the sump to clean out any settled sludge. In this case I wouldn't fuss about what oil to use as I'd be changing it again soon.

Battery sounds fine. Many of us are using cheap generic AGM batteries.

My round mater cylinder is all still original so I'm not sure what the Motobins kit includes. I doubt it includes the seal between the reservoir and metal body.

Fuel tap sounds obviously blocked possibly with stale fuel. I'd empty the tank to see what the state of the fuel is and what debris the tank contains. There should be a small mesh filter inside the bottom tap union which may be blocked. The tap can be dismantled, cleaned and rebuilt but it's a job that involves much swearing as you'll find out when trying to reassemble it.

Carbs will need a clean and rebuild with new O rings and diaphragm. Flat top Bings can have the diaphragm changed without replacing the whole slide assembly.  Other than the needle jet which is prone to wear there is no need to automatically replace any other jets if they clean up OK.  Floats probably will need replacement which you can check by weighing them. 12 - 14 grams is serviceable.

Round air filters last a very long so I wouldn't  automatically change it unless it's deteriorated or has a vast mileage on it.

Other things to look at ?  I'd be surprised if the Ate front brake caliper wasn't seized from corrosion.

  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #2 - 09/25/18 at 08:23:55
Post Tools
Hi Barry thanks for all that.

I'll definitely change the oil then (hadn't done it for some time before I stopped using it)
Should I do them all, or could I just change the engine and simply check and top up levels on gearbox, drive shaft and rear bevel?

for the engine oil I read a 20w - 50 is ok?
for the gearbox 75W-90? & is this the same for the drive shaft and rear bevel?

The motorbins kit for the master cylinder only includes the piston assembly, but the diaphragm is apparently also still available on http://www.capitalcycle.com in the states. My problem is that I don't know what parts I need, as I don't know whats causing the fluid leak.....I guess once (if.....) I manage to get it apart this may become clearer?

For the carbs should I add needle jets to my order ? Or is there a way to look at them to see if they need replacing?
I'll check the floats.

I have the twin Brembo disks fitted to the bike, but I suppose your comment still applies to these. Would it be sensible to take these apart before refilling the system with break fluid? (see photo; there's a fair amount of rust..)

Lastly (for now at least) it looks like it would be sensible for me to add a torque wrench to my tool box, which one of the following would serve me best:
28 - 210 Nm, 1/2 inch or 
7 - 105 Nm, 3/8 inch

Thanks again
Tom
  

P1010558__1_.jpg ( 276 KB | 8 Downloads )
P1010558__1_.jpg
P1010560__1_.jpg ( 185 KB | 9 Downloads )
P1010560__1_.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #3 - 09/25/18 at 10:13:39
Post Tools
Hi just taken the fuel tap from the tank and its full of rubbish - obviously needs a good clean out. Any advice on cleaning products would be useful
  

IMG_5989.jpg ( 167 KB | 9 Downloads )
IMG_5989.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #4 - 09/25/18 at 13:51:49
Post Tools
TomHoldom wrote on 09/25/18 at 08:23:55:
I'll definitely change the oil then (hadn't done it for some time before I stopped using it)
Should I do them all, or could I just change the engine and simply check and top up levels on gearbox, drive shaft and rear bevel?

for the engine oil I read a 20w - 50 is ok?
for the gearbox 75W-90? & is this the same for the drive shaft and rear bevel?

The motorbins kit for the master cylinder only includes the piston assembly, but the diaphragm is apparently also still available on http://www.capitalcycle.com in the states. My problem is that I don't know what parts I need, as I don't know whats causing the fluid leak.....I guess once (if.....) I manage to get it apart this may become clearer?

For the carbs should I add needle jets to my order ? Or is there a way to look at them to see if they need replacing?
I'll check the floats.

I have the twin Brembo disks fitted to the bike, but I suppose your comment still applies to these. Would it be sensible to take these apart before refilling the system with break fluid? (see photo; there's a fair amount of rust..)

Lastly (for now at least) it looks like it would be sensible for me to add a torque wrench to my tool box, which one of the following would serve me best:
28 - 210 Nm, 1/2 inch or
7 - 105 Nm, 3/8 inch


Changining the trasmission oils is less critical than the engine oil provided an inspection shows there is no water contamination but given you need only a little over 1 litre of oil it might be safer to change them. 75w90 is fine for all 3 and 20W50 for the engine. 

Brembo calipers on a 78 are good news in many respects. It means they are not original and therfore not as old as the bike, they are less suceptble than Ate to corrosion and spares are much cheaper if you do need them.  Rust on the outside is not really a functional issue, it's whether or not the pistons have siezed. If they are not both free to move the brakes won't work and even too much stiction will cause the brakes to sqeal as the pistons will not retract. After 10 years I suspect you'll need to rebuild them.

Measuring needle jets for wear is a tricky business if you consider that the difference between one size of needle jet and the next size up is only 0.8 thousands of an inch. It therefore doesn't take much wear to make a big difference and you are not going to be able to measure that wear without accurate pin gauges which would cost more than new jets.

You can't do everything with one size of torque wrench but of the two the 3/8 wrench will be most useful.

The tap and therfore the tank are a mess and you will probably need to re-coat the tank inside. Not something I've done but you'll find lots of previous thtreads with a search.

  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Justin B.
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


I love my Beemers

Posts: 5798
Location: Crowley, TX
Joined: 11/08/05
Gender: Male
Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #5 - 09/25/18 at 14:17:17
Post Tools
I have done three tanks and found the POR15 tank liner to be the best, IMHO.  The tank on my '81 R100 was very nasty inside, original liner flaking off, etc.  I used Muriatic acid and sloshed and rotated it for about 12 hours and the inside of the tank was a nice matte gray with no liner or rust left.  After rinsing and drying I coated with POR15 and today the tank is still silver on the inside - after about 13 years or so.

You might want to think about a new fuel tap.  They are about £28.00 + S&H from MotoBins.
  

Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: Leaking Master Cylinder
Reply #6 - 09/25/18 at 20:43:55
Post Tools
If you plan on rebuilding the calipers take them apart first to make sure what size the piston are
Hopefully they are the standard 38mm 
Honestly I cant imagine riding the bike without rebuilding the brake hydraulics first   
« Last Edit: 09/26/18 at 21:27:02 by Mrclubike »  

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
georgesgiralt
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 1154
Location: France
Joined: 10/14/12
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #7 - 09/26/18 at 02:09:11
Post Tools
And change transmission oil too. Brittany can be quite damp in winter, so I won't be surprised there is some water in the transmission. At first start you will mix the oil and water and turn it into some cafe looking junk.
I second the advice about braking. Planning to be able to stop the bike proper has to be done before putting gas in the tank.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matt Chapter
God Member
*****
Offline


<insert witty remark here>

Posts: 513
Location: Austin, TX
Joined: 04/27/10
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #8 - 09/26/18 at 09:37:47
Post Tools
TomHoldom wrote on 09/24/18 at 11:39:06:
b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?


I'd find an AGM battery instead, they last longer and require zero maintenance for about the same price.
  

'86 R65 with '84 motor ~66000 miles.  SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles.  Weepy SS lines, big dent in the tank.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #9 - 09/26/18 at 09:39:13
Post Tools
Thank you Barry, Justin B, Mrclubike and georgesgirait for your advise.

All oils are draining as I type....one issue already which feels like it could be a big one, is that the drive shaft filler plug came undone nicely, but then just continued turning having only lifted a couple of mm...so currently can't get out for refill and presumably it may not seal up well? Any advice?

I'll try and take my Brembo Calipers apart this afternoon.
Can you tell from the photo above whether mine are the twin piston fixed type (they appear to be from the Haynes diagram)?
When I'm ordering parts is there a specific reference I can give to be sure to ordering compatible bits.
For example on the motobins site there is a caliper overhaul kit Code: 23300A    BMW: 34 21 1 237 234 which is for R65 1985 and onwards - could it be this?

Barry, I'll add a couple of needle jets to my motobins order for when I rebuild the carbs - just to be sure I've understood the part you're talking about is the attached photo right (obviously I'll check the size before ordering)

thanks Justin B. I'll order some POR15 and sort out the tank.

Thanks all again
  

needle_jet_BMW_13_11_1_335_744.png ( 132 KB | 6 Downloads )
needle_jet_BMW_13_11_1_335_744.png
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matt Chapter
God Member
*****
Offline


<insert witty remark here>

Posts: 513
Location: Austin, TX
Joined: 04/27/10
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #10 - 09/26/18 at 09:59:40
Post Tools
TomHoldom wrote on 09/26/18 at 09:39:13:
Can you tell from the photo above whether mine are the twin piston fixed type (they appear to be from the Haynes diagram)?


You can tell by looking at the caliper that it's a single piston.  Since the '78 models came with ATE calipers, someone has done you a small favor and replaced the originals with Brembos.  Therefore, you can't go off of what the parts fiche says alone - you should measure the piston size and brake pads to determine exactly which caliper you have.  There are at least two different Brembo calipers used on the R65 from when the Brembos were introduced to '87.
  

'86 R65 with '84 motor ~66000 miles.  SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles.  Weepy SS lines, big dent in the tank.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #11 - 09/26/18 at 11:33:01
Post Tools
Smart thinking Tom, in attempting to remove the filler plug before the drain plug. The various filler and drain plug threads strip easily if over tightened. They should not be more than 10 ftlbs and for filler plugs I use even less. It will need to be helicoiled.

Your calipers are twin piston in that there is a piston pressing on each brake pad as opposed to a single piston sliding caliper commonly fitted to cars.

The picture you posted does show the correct needle jets.

The work list is getting longer. I hope you don't find too many more issues.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Justin B.
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


I love my Beemers

Posts: 5798
Location: Crowley, TX
Joined: 11/08/05
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #12 - 09/26/18 at 13:45:44
Post Tools
The small plug on the rear of the final drive is a sight plug.  It's best to leave this alone and remove the vent on top to pour in a pre-measured quantity of lube.

The "Junkyard Dawg" had this stripped as well so I drilled out the hole and made a threaded insert with M6 threaded hole, JB-Welded it into the hole, and used a SS screw with copper washer.  Worked like a champ!

On the POR15 kit, this is what I used along with the Muriatic Acid:

https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Motorcycle-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit-_p_106.html
  

insert_installed_2_002.JPG ( 72 KB | 8 Downloads )
insert_installed_2_002.JPG
Finished.JPG ( 54 KB | 8 Downloads )
Finished.JPG

Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Tony Smith
God Member
*****
Online


Graduate, Wallace and
Gromit School of Engineering

Posts: 2031
Location: Cairns, Australia
Joined: 07/23/13
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #13 - 09/26/18 at 20:00:49
Post Tools









Ok, the horse has bolted on a sympathetic recomissioning of the engine, given that you have already started it and this picked up a fair quantity of whatever crud was sitting int eh bottom of the sump and run it through the pump, into the filter, and possibly beyond.

Please do add a sump gasket to your purchases and take the sump off and clean it out inside, this is a good opportunity to find out if dire things are happening as is usually evidenced by metal fragments, clips and pins being found int he sump. Please note that the sump gasket does not need ANY sealants, adhesives, or magic potions to do its job, all it needs is a nice, clean mating surface. If you are having trouble getting it to stay in position whilst you offer the sump up to the engine prior to bolting it - a small smear of axle grease is the way to go.

Brakes.
Brembos have hard anodised, polished pistons and unless they leak when connected to a working master cylinder I'd be inclined to leave them alone other than fitting new pads, new stainless steel bleed nipples and some new rubber caps. I would count on replacing the hoses to the brakes as soon as practicable, this is a near 40 year old machine and they have had their life. Braided stainless steel lines are good.

Master cylinder
After the length of time your bike has sat, you can pretty much bank on the master cylinder being toast. Pull it apart and if the bore is undamaged, clean it up and put a new piston kit in it (and then go and buy a handful of lottery tickets). OTOH if the M/C is toast you have some decisions. If it is a "round" tank model, it is junk purely because you can no longer buy new tanks, I have several otherwise serviceable (or repairable) round tank M/Cs and I keep looking but cannot find new tanks. Even if yours is good it is still a time bomb as the seal at the base of the tank will fail and when it does it is game over because whilst it is just a simple O-ring, pulling the tank will destroy it 99 times out of 100.

If you have a square tank, then I'd buy a new tank (they are cheap) and O-ring, and possibly a new internal "baffle" (which are not cheap but are eventually ruined by brake fluid). Look on the front side of the M/C and it will have a number, most likely 12 or 13 which refers to its bore size. I would pay to have a square tank M/C sleeved in stainless steel before I'd buy a new one - the stainless sleeve will last forever and require only piston changes thereafter and will cost a lot less than a new M/C. There are some who say a sleeved master cylinder may leak - in which case it was done wrong. Correctly done the sleeve is frozen and pressed into a heated M/C body that has been previously bored to size - the resultant interference fit is NEVER going to leak. However, a brake cylinder rebuilder who does not have a precision lathe on the premises is likely going to use a bench drill and should be wearing a white cap and a black apron because he is a butcher, not an engineer.  Using a bench drill and adhesives works sufficiently often that many use that method and frankly with a sleeve going into a cast iron cylinder, yeah maybe. Into Alloy - no way......

If you do buy a new M/C, buy the latest brake lever as well, it may help you avoid a mismatch problem.

Fuel tank.

That needs to be cleaned and relined urgently. I've no knowledge of POR products, but a lot of people report positive results. A small tip. Once you have your new liner in the tank and you are about to put it aside to cure, lay it down upside down. The reason for this is that you inevitably end up with a "blob" of excess liner material and if that blob is always under fuel you run the risk of the fuel attacking it and getting through it to the steel and restarting the corrosion problem. Putting the tank upside down means the blob is permanently above fuel level and is less susceptible to attack.

Tank petcock.
Buy a rebuild kit, they are cheap. Also buy a new filter "sock" for it - that is the only fuel filter an airhead needs.

Carbs
Before spending a fortune on new parts, these carbs are VERY durable. If you have the "pissing fuel on your boot" problem, firstly turn your fuel tap off when you stop - your carbs are not petcocks (Bing told me so). If you have a persistent leak, take the float bowl off and jiggle the floats up and down a 1/2 dozen times and see if that cures it. This can take a while, I foolishly let my fuel system dry out and when I went for a ride last weekend I had to stop 11 times and do as above until all the crap in the fuel lines was flushed through. Obviously if you still have problems after the above, put a kit through your carbs. Do not wimp out on replacing he butterfly shaft o-rings, they are important. Do one  carb at a time as many components are "handed" - mixing handed components is bad....Very bad.

Further rant later.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #14 - 09/26/18 at 20:23:05
Post Tools
You will have to dissemble the caliper and measure the piston  to know for sure what kit you need

All of these Brembo  calipers look the same but have different piston diameters
« Last Edit: 09/26/18 at 21:26:22 by Mrclubike »  

brembo_cals.PNG ( 107 KB | 10 Downloads )
brembo_cals.PNG

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #15 - 09/26/18 at 20:24:45
Post Tools
Hopefully it will measure 38mm and you can get the very inexpensive Brembo 38mm kit

here is the link to the complete caliper if yours are to far gone
They are standard Moto Guzzi parts
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_115&products_i...

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_115&products_i...
  

Brembo_seal_kit.PNG ( 97 KB | 8 Downloads )
Brembo_seal_kit.PNG

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #16 - 09/26/18 at 20:27:42
Post Tools
The ATE is  what you  had originally
Like yours I have installed a standard 38mm Brembo F08 in its place
  

Brembo_And_ATE_004.JPG ( 137 KB | 7 Downloads )
Brembo_And_ATE_004.JPG

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #17 - 09/27/18 at 03:40:18
Post Tools
Matt Chapter wrote on 09/26/18 at 09:37:47:
TomHoldom wrote on 09/24/18 at 11:39:06:
b.t.w I had ear-marked the Power King PK-12180 12V 18Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery (€46 in France) which fits in my enclosure - sound alright?


I'd find an AGM battery instead, they last longer and require zero maintenance for about the same price.


Looks to me like the Power King PK-12180 replacement batteries are AGM's.

  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #18 - 09/27/18 at 13:12:29
Post Tools
Thanks all again,

OIL
stripped drive shaft fill - obviously needs a repair in the long term.....presumably that means taking apart to get access to drill out etc?
Having finally managed to remove the plug from this location (previously it was just turning), is there a temp / bodge fix I could get away with in the  short term...?

the oil filter I have taken out is the 'bendy' 2 part type, but I am ordering the 'straight' type to replace - is this ok?

Oil that came out of the engine was 'clean' looking, so I don't think I'll remove

FRONT BRAKE CALIPERS
got the calipers apart; condition doesn't look too bad? (see photos), the pistons aren't jammed, I can compress both sides and a bit of residual fluid gurgles - should I be able to remove them?
They appear to measure 36mm diameter - is this bad news? I think someone mentioned the 38 was more commen and cheaper for parts?
That said the condition doesn look bad, but as you know I'm no expert; could you have a quick look at the photos and tell me what you think - pads have still got plently on them......

MASTER CYLINDER
Got this apart, but things here look less good - see photos...salvagable?
Its maybe looking like I'll have to 'upgrade' to a square. Motobins tell me that part 61126 THROTTLE ASSEMBY WITH MASTER CYLINDER is compatible with my twin disk brembos - at cost of £258,60....! May be the way to go?
  

P1010573.jpg ( 281 KB | 6 Downloads )
P1010573.jpg
brake_pads.jpg ( 131 KB | 7 Downloads )
brake_pads.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #19 - 09/27/18 at 13:34:12
Post Tools
and a couple of master cylinder photos
  

P1010580.jpg ( 175 KB | 5 Downloads )
P1010580.jpg
P1010583.jpg ( 202 KB | 5 Downloads )
P1010583.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Aethelric
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 5
Location: Cornwall, UK
Joined: 08/05/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #20 - 09/27/18 at 14:50:11
Post Tools
Quote:
OK here goes; I'm pretty much a novice so please excuse my ignorance.
I have a 1978 R65 which I bought around 20 years ago, used on and off for 10 years, then left for 10 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery obviously dead, but a friend hooked it up to their car and managed to get the engine to splutter back to life.


In parallel:-
Mine is a 1985 R65LS bought 25 years ago, used on an off for 10 years then left 15 years (undercover) and now am getting going again.
Battery was dead but hooking up to a leisure battery it sputtered into life.

Mine is now in bits, Engine out, barrels and heads off being aqua blasted, frame awaiting powder coating.  Bottom end looks in good shape.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #21 - 09/27/18 at 21:40:16
Post Tools
take the pistons completely out to measure
Maybe the outer  rim is smaller than the piston itself
That fluid looks really bad
Looks like water contamination 
I suspect the MC bore is bad
I suspect the caliper bores are pitted also
  

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #22 - 09/28/18 at 03:46:18
Post Tools
Hello Mrclubike,
any tips on how to get caliper pistons out - as I say, they move in and out, but I'm not familiar with these bits, so I'm nervous about damaging something.

Attached is a photo of the MC bore and piston after a soak in some slightly less old fluid - Look slightly less awful, but I'm thinking with the amount other dodgy bits with this MC; reservoir cap screws had to be drilled out as 2 out of 3 were spinning without coming out, diaphragm knackered, fluid leak even before I stopped using the bike 12 years ago, etc.... that it might be sensible to renew for the square reservoir?
  

MS_piston__cleaned_.jpg ( 160 KB | 6 Downloads )
MS_piston__cleaned_.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #23 - 09/28/18 at 03:55:47
Post Tools
A bit late now but I would have pumped them out before draining the fluid.  I've refilled the system before now to get a stubborn one out.  Other methods include using compressed air taking care the piston doesn't become a missile.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Justin B.
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


I love my Beemers

Posts: 5798
Location: Crowley, TX
Joined: 11/08/05
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #24 - 09/28/18 at 16:21:52
Post Tools
Put a piece of wood in place of the "rotor" and put some compressed air to the inlet.  Make sure your fingers are clear when doing this...
  

Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Tony Smith
God Member
*****
Online


Graduate, Wallace and
Gromit School of Engineering

Posts: 2031
Location: Cairns, Australia
Joined: 07/23/13
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #25 - 09/28/18 at 19:05:59
Post Tools
If the caliper pistons are really stuck (and being Brembos I'd be surprise if they were) You can run a tap into the gallery that connects the two halves of the caliper and fit a grease nipple.

Using a grease-gun to pump out stuck caliper pistons is something I have done many times, mostly to car brakes, but also to ATE and Tockico calipers (manufacturers who share the unspeakable crime of using chrome plated bright mild steel for pistons).

Messy, but never yet met a piston that successfully resisted.


However, to turn to your immediate problem, I would simply fit an O-ring and put your calipers back together and give them a good flush once you have a working master cylinder. A motorcycle wrecker of my acquaintance tells me that he has seen Brembos sit on his shelf for 20 years and still be useable.

Don't panic about possible bore damage, such damage will likely be on the fluid side of the seal and therefore irrelevant. Spend your time and money on more urgent projects.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #26 - 10/02/18 at 10:50:05
Post Tools
Hello again

BREMBO CALIPERS
Finally got my calipers pistons out - good news is they look in good condition, less good news is they are 36mm so when I come to need parts it'll cost more...
At the moment I'm just planning to buy new s/s bleed nipples and rubber caps (as recommended by Tony Smith)

MASTER CYLINDER
Looks like this is beyond my powers of repair, so planning to order a new throttle assembly with master cylinder

STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?

MOTOBINS
see below for a list of items on my motobins order I will placing in the next couple of days; let know if you think I should be considering anything else.

Thanks again - all comments appreciated
Tom
  

motobins_order.png ( 279 KB | 5 Downloads )
motobins_order.png
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #27 - 10/02/18 at 13:55:52
Post Tools
TomHoldom wrote on 10/02/18 at 10:50:05:
STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?



It'a 12 x 1.5.

I've never had to do this but when you get the drive shaft filler plug out you'll see there is very little depth of free space below the threads to use any sort of taper tap and even if there was you would have to devise a means of preventing swarf getting into the housing. Perhaps someone who has done this repair will chip in and say if it's possible in situ or if as I suspect the drive shaft will have to be removed. I think I'd want to use a pillar drill to keep the hole and threads perpendicular to the housing.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tony Smith
God Member
*****
Online


Graduate, Wallace and
Gromit School of Engineering

Posts: 2031
Location: Cairns, Australia
Joined: 07/23/13
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #28 - 10/02/18 at 15:03:45
Post Tools
Barry wrote on 10/02/18 at 13:55:52:
I've never had to do this but when you get the drive shaft filler plug out you'll see there is very little depth of free space below the threads to use any sort of taper tap and even if there was you would have to devise a means of preventing swarf getting into the housing. Perhaps someone who has done this repair will chip in and say if it's possible in situ or if as I suspect the drive shaft will have to be removed. I think I'd want to use a pillar drill to keep the hole and threads perpendicular to the housing.


It is not possible to do in situ. More to the point, unless you are very,very lucky there is no little metal there that a "proper" repair may require welding and re-drilling.

My wife's bike has been wearing a rubber bung in place of the "fill" screw since the early 90s. Water doesn't get in and only a little gear oil manages to migrate out to remind me that one day I must get  a round to fixing it properly. I am about to pull that final drive to replace seals and at least the big bearing (and on past experience probably every bearing bar the input "sleeve" bearings which just never seems to fail on the older airheads). As I will have it stripped to a bare housing I'll take it into town and have it welded and drilled for a new bolt.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Justin B.
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


I love my Beemers

Posts: 5798
Location: Crowley, TX
Joined: 11/08/05
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #29 - 10/02/18 at 16:01:25
Post Tools
The repair I did I drilled and then used a "bottoming" tap and JB-Welded the insert into the final.  On the drill and tap just use a bunch of sticky grease and most, if not all, of the chips will stick to it.
  

Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #30 - 10/02/18 at 21:00:27
Post Tools
I think I wold try to go towards a repair Like Justin suggested
See if you can drill the original plug out big enough to allow it to be used as a thread repair insert and just JB weld it in
You may be able to drill   it  out enough to get a 8mm bolt in it

Darn Helciols can be tricky
  

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tony Smith
God Member
*****
Online


Graduate, Wallace and
Gromit School of Engineering

Posts: 2031
Location: Cairns, Australia
Joined: 07/23/13
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #31 - 10/03/18 at 03:21:02
Post Tools
Mrclubike wrote on 10/02/18 at 21:00:27:
Darn Helciols can be tricky


If I were to even try to do this I'd use a cut down tinesert rather than a helicoil.

  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #32 - 10/03/18 at 06:28:02
Post Tools
Justins repair was very neat. You are only going to be putting a maximum of 150 cc of oil in so it doesn't need a big fill hole.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #33 - 10/03/18 at 06:59:55
Post Tools
Hi Tony,
I think I'll go down your 'temporary' rubber bung solution for the time being. Just trying to source the right one - do you think a tapered rubber bung 9mm diam and 11,5mm diam x 20mm ht would be about right?
I'll add Justin's or the Helicoil solutions to my phase 2 list.....

For cleaning up the calipers, do I use break fluid and an old toothbrush?
  

rubber_bung_9_x_11_5_x_20ht.jpg ( 7 KB | 9 Downloads )
rubber_bung_9_x_11_5_x_20ht.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tunnelrider
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 278
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined: 07/21/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #34 - 10/08/18 at 01:05:42
Post Tools
Just adding a post to bring this topic back to the current board as it was before I deleted a post I made, to start a new topic.  Somehow Tom's R65 resurrection topic disappeared off the board too.
  

 1985 Black R65  -  1983 Ducati Pantah 500 - 2001 DRZ400 dirt only
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tony Smith
God Member
*****
Online


Graduate, Wallace and
Gromit School of Engineering

Posts: 2031
Location: Cairns, Australia
Joined: 07/23/13
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #35 - 10/08/18 at 02:12:38
Post Tools
TomHoldom wrote on 10/03/18 at 06:59:55:
Hi Tony,
do you think a tapered rubber bung 9mm diam and 11,5mm diam x 20mm ht would be about right?


For cleaning up the calipers, do I use break fluid and an old toothbrush?


If the bung fits tightly whilst still leaving enough material on top for you to grab when you need to remove it, it will be golden.

I've attached a photo of the "bung" in the final driveon the wife's R65/80, ignore the oil weep marks, I am going to rebuild it this week, for some reason I've had to do 3 final drive rebuilds this year, which is more than I've had to do in the previous 40 years of Airhead onwership. The only thing I'll say is that I am now a dab hand at getting the little bastard of a bearing out that carries the "nose" of the pinion shaft, I've borrowed from the old mechanic's cookbook for removing the clutch bearign or bush from the centre of a flywheel - turn up a piece of steel that just fits inside the bush/bearing and then pack as much grease as possible into the bush/bearing. Insert turned steel drift and then smack the end of it smartly with a big hammer, the grease, having nowhere to go, forces the bush/bearing out.

As to cleaning the caliper - whatever floats your boat, just be sure that when to put it back together that you only use clean brake fluid as assembley lube.

  

final_drive_bung.jpg ( 218 KB | 9 Downloads )
final_drive_bung.jpg

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #36 - 10/08/18 at 05:58:47
Post Tools
thanks Tony
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DadsR65
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 30
Location: Central CT, USA
Joined: 05/05/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #37 - 10/11/18 at 05:31:41
Post Tools
TomHoldom wrote on 10/02/18 at 10:50:05:
Hello again



STRIPPED DRIVE SHAFT FILL
Barry, I've looked at the heliocoil kits - much simpler than I first imagined. Do you know which thread I need - looks like M12, but there is M12 x 1,5 x 16,3 kit or M12 x 1,25 x 16,3 see photo below; do you know which one of these might do the job?
Presumably I'll need to remove the rear suspension spring for access?

Tom


I did this repair.  Here's the final result:  https://advrider.com/f/threads/new-airhead-project.1260761/page-3#post-33742346

Read up a bit in the thread to see how I did it.  No leaks to date.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #38 - 10/16/18 at 10:34:13
Post Tools
just got my other front disk brake pads out, and this set also have a decent amount of pad left, though a bit more rust/flakey paint on the rear side - is this something to worry about, or can I re-use.
If I need to replace, how can find the correct replacements for 36mm Brembo Calipers?
see photos
  

IMG_5991.jpg ( 40 KB | 5 Downloads )
IMG_5991.jpg
IMG_5992.jpg ( 73 KB | 5 Downloads )
IMG_5992.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #39 - 10/16/18 at 10:43:58
Post Tools
Tyres:
should I also assume that tyres have to be changed
see photos
I see these are suggested as a not to pricey option

Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC 
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H

Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC 
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.

any advice appreciated on these
(my usage will be occasional mainly taking it easy around country lanes)
  

IMG_8382.jpg ( 100 KB | 3 Downloads )
IMG_8382.jpg
IMG_8383.jpg ( 179 KB | 4 Downloads )
IMG_8383.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #40 - 10/16/18 at 13:38:54
Post Tools
Nothing wrong with the original quality of those tires but how old are they ?    You should be able to work it out from the date codes on the side wall.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #41 - 10/16/18 at 13:42:42
Post Tools
TomHoldom wrote on 10/16/18 at 10:34:13:
just got my other front disk brake pads out, and this set also have a decent amount of pad left, though a bit more rust/flakey paint on the rear side - is this something to worry about, or can I re-use.


In terms of wear those pads are nearly new so I would be inclined to clean them up and repaint the backs.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MrTall100
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 14
Location: Bedford, UK
Joined: 09/26/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #42 - 10/19/18 at 13:41:05
Post Tools
Hi,

Might not be of help now but although really really expensive the 16mm master cylinder from Motorworks fits the lever assembly on a 78-80 R65 which has the round reservoir.

I bought a ‘reconditioned’ lever and master cylinder assembly on eBay, only to find it leaked straight away which meant I had little options  Cry

Andrew
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MrTall100
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 14
Location: Bedford, UK
Joined: 09/26/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #43 - 10/19/18 at 13:42:08
Post Tools
Sorry mean’t to say twin disc although they sell other sizes.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tony Smith
God Member
*****
Online


Graduate, Wallace and
Gromit School of Engineering

Posts: 2031
Location: Cairns, Australia
Joined: 07/23/13
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #44 - 10/19/18 at 16:03:47
Post Tools
My GOD!
The only time an R65 would need a 16mm master cylinder is if you were fitting Brembo 4-spot calipers.

I did the math when I was considering doing just that, BMW use a 17mm or 19mm for those calipers depending on whether you have a K100, K1100 or R1100/1150 and the consensus is that they can be just a little wooden.

I worked out that 16mm gave a nice ratio and 15mm  would be OK once the hand learned moderation.

16mm with Brembo F08s would require horrendous lever pressure in order to work, 13mm is about right for most people, I am currently running twin K100 sourced Brembo 2-spots o a 12mm master cylinder and whilst I'll admit it took a ride or two for the hand to learn moderation, I am now completely happy with it (moderation required because 1 finger can lock the front wheel without raising a sweat)
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #45 - 10/20/18 at 01:39:40
Post Tools
Thanks Barry,
I've got the DOT refs here; the front is 497, which must be 49th week of 1997, and the rear 499 being the end of 1999........
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MrTall100
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 14
Location: Bedford, UK
Joined: 09/26/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #46 - 10/20/18 at 02:48:34
Post Tools
Yes Tony, wooden would be a good description on how the lever feels especially with the SS lines fitted.

Having spent a small fortune on the brakes inc replacing the calliper seals and lines it will have to do for a while. It’s never going to be a daily ride.

Leaving old fluid in them sitting for years is what probably kills them as not been on the road since 2008.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #47 - 10/20/18 at 04:33:00
Post Tools
TomHoldom wrote on 10/20/18 at 01:39:40:
Thanks Barry,
I've got the DOT refs here; the front is 497, which must be 49th week of 1997, and the rear 499 being the end of 1999........


You'll want to change them then !

I had those 3 digit codes on my 79 when I bought it at 28 years old and only 6000 miles.  The problem with the 3 digit codes was you couldn't tell which decade they dated from. The front was so rock hard it was obviously original and I replaced it immediately but the rear looked good with no cracks and had so much tread left I initially thought it was a later tyre and rode on it for several thousand miles. When it refused to wear out I changed that as well.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #48 - 10/20/18 at 07:30:58
Post Tools
ok. These seem reasonably priced in France - d'you think they'll be ok?
Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H

Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #49 - 10/20/18 at 07:46:51
Post Tools
Any tips on getting the last bolt undone to get my calipers apart?
  

IMG_5995.jpg ( 194 KB | 4 Downloads )
IMG_5995.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tony Smith
God Member
*****
Online


Graduate, Wallace and
Gromit School of Engineering

Posts: 2031
Location: Cairns, Australia
Joined: 07/23/13
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #50 - 10/20/18 at 15:36:56
Post Tools
Put them back on the bike and then jump on that extension bar you have there, after first soaking it with a 50/50 mix of Acetone and ATF for a few days.

A bit of heat would probably help the process too.

Replace bolts with Stainless Steel ones and use anti-seize on them.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
davidpdx
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 197
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Joined: 10/16/11
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #51 - 10/22/18 at 10:30:24
Post Tools
I didn't see that anyone had mentioned new tires. When I bought my bike it had 10 year old tires on it with less than 1000 miles on them. The bike was so squirrelly that I though that I had forgotten how to ride a motorbike. New tires and shocks made a world of difference. Lesson learned, tread depth is not the only thing to check. The month and year of manufacture is stamped on the side of the tire if you look long enough.
  

1984 R65 60K+
1946 Triumph Speed Twin

Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube.  That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…

— Hunter S. Thomps
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Justin B.
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


I love my Beemers

Posts: 5798
Location: Crowley, TX
Joined: 11/08/05
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #52 - 10/22/18 at 23:06:49
Post Tools
Yeah, tires are close to the top of my list of things to change on a "new" bike.  The last three used motorcycles I've had had a head-shake at about 40 mph that was "fixed" with new tires...
  

Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #53 - 10/24/18 at 11:01:43
Post Tools
anyone care to comment on these as replacements?
Rear Tyre
Metzeler ME77 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 4.00 -18 64H

Front Tyre
Metzeler ME22 - CLASSIC
SIZE: 3.25-18 59P reinf.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
davidpdx
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 197
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Joined: 10/16/11
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #54 - 10/24/18 at 22:01:45
Post Tools
Metzelers are spendy tires but I have ridden on bad asphalt in rainy near freezing temp and they have never gone out from under me so I am pretty much sold. The old rock and roll song "the brakes are good, the tires fair" kind of doesn't make it on two wheels. But I still like the song.
  

1984 R65 60K+
1946 Triumph Speed Twin

Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube.  That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…

— Hunter S. Thomps
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #55 - 11/17/18 at 04:27:44
Post Tools
Oil filter change.
I'm just fitting my replacement oil filter and have 2 spare washers from the motobins kit - see photos - are these necessarily required?
  

IMG_8487.jpg ( 235 KB | 3 Downloads )
IMG_8487.jpg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Aethelric
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 5
Location: Cornwall, UK
Joined: 08/05/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #56 - 11/17/18 at 04:54:32
Post Tools
I'll be interested too.  I could not find a place for the big metal "shim" either.  Nothing like that came out of the old one.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #57 - 11/17/18 at 05:33:42
Post Tools
also replacing washers to the various sumps.
replacements are copper with a rounded profile, and originals are flat edged aluminium - see photo.
Am I doing the right thing?

Got  a torque setting for the gearbox sump, but nothing given for the engine oil (which is an allen key, so difficult any way to hook up to my torque wrench....) Not too tight a suppose?
  

sump_washers.JPG ( 281 KB | 3 Downloads )
sump_washers.JPG
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #58 - 11/17/18 at 11:30:15
Post Tools
I'm sure the copper crush washers will be fine. 

BMW's spec for the sump plug torque is something like 22ftlbs which I consider dangerously high. I go very light with 10 ftlbs for all the fill and drain plugs except the drive shaft which gets a bit less and I've never had one leak or fall out.  You could probably safely go a little higher than 10 but I wouldn't dare use 22 ftlbs. I'd be interested to hear what others use.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bob_Roller
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


  GMT -7 Hours

Posts: 8695
Location: Tempe, Aridzona USA
Joined: 11/13/06
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #59 - 11/17/18 at 12:50:48
Post Tools
The large metal washer, commonly called a shim, goes into the oil filter cavity, it sits on the edge of the sleeve in the filter area .
As far as tightening the various fill and drain lugs, you need a light touch with the wrenches, etc ...
You'll find out real quick, that steel fasteners and aluminum threads can become a disaster if over tightened .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
skippyc
Senior Member
****
Offline


Shouldn't have sold them
old bikes.

Posts: 253
Location: Horsham Australia
Joined: 12/12/15
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #60 - 11/17/18 at 15:30:49
Post Tools
Copper washers are good they seal with less torque.
I found no use for the smaller oring either.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #61 - 11/17/18 at 19:04:33
Post Tools
Aethelric wrote on 11/17/18 at 04:54:32:
I'll be interested too.  I could not find a place for the big metal "shim" either.  Nothing like that came out of the old one.


Just because you didn't remove a part when you dissembled it doesn't mean you don't need it
Previous owners are notorious for screwing things up   Angry

The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out  you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it 

But the best info is here at Snowbums tech articles
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/technical-articles-list.htm

After you are there scroll down to the Mechanical section and then to Line 51a
Every Airhead owner should be aware of the issue with properly  installing an oil filter
  

Capture_mechanical.PNG ( 29 KB | 4 Downloads )
Capture_mechanical.PNG
Capture_Filter_change.PNG ( 18 KB | 3 Downloads )
Capture_Filter_change.PNG

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bob_Roller
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


  GMT -7 Hours

Posts: 8695
Location: Tempe, Aridzona USA
Joined: 11/13/06
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #62 - 11/17/18 at 20:52:55
Post Tools
Looking at the o-ring assortment, I think the smaller black o-ring, may be for the oil dipstick .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Aethelric
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 5
Location: Cornwall, UK
Joined: 08/05/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #63 - 11/18/18 at 07:44:02
Post Tools
Quote:
The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out  you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it 


Thanks for that mrclubbike. Checking on Antons site it seems I need the shim, but not the gasket.(Canister depth is 3.5mm) When I dismatled it there was a gasket but no shim. 
The old O ring (black not white in my case) had obviously been installed with some sort of sealant. So it is now reassembled with no gasket, and one shim, torqued up to hand tight with a T spanner and loctited (I don't believe in lock washers.

The black 30mm O ring fits the filler plug and the 20mm copper crush washer fits the drain plug.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bob_Roller
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


  GMT -7 Hours

Posts: 8695
Location: Tempe, Aridzona USA
Joined: 11/13/06
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #64 - 11/18/18 at 13:06:10
Post Tools
None of the fill or drain plugs use a rubber o-ring, they all use metal washers .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #65 - 11/18/18 at 23:33:53
Post Tools
some Dip sticks use the Oring
  

Capturedipstick_Oring.PNG ( 47 KB | 1 Download )
Capturedipstick_Oring.PNG

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mrclubike
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 869
Location: O'Fallon, MO USA
Joined: 09/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #66 - 11/18/18 at 23:35:52
Post Tools
Aethelric wrote on 11/18/18 at 07:44:02:
Quote:
The large diameter shim in the kit is critical in some applications
If your engine requires it and you leave it out  you can have loss of oil pressure and destroy your engine
I do not know the cut off dates of when it is and isn't required
But a simple search of the "2000 dollar O ring" will tell you all about it 


Thanks for that mrclubbike. Checking on Antons site it seems I need the shim, but not the gasket.(Canister depth is 3.5mm) When I dismatled it there was a gasket but no shim. 
The old O ring (black not white in my case) had obviously been installed with some sort of sealant. So it is now reassembled with no gasket, and one shim, torqued up to hand tight with a T spanner and loctited (I don't believe in lock washers.

The black 30mm O ring fits the filler plug and the 20mm copper crush washer fits the drain plug.


Very glad you Fixed it  Grin
  

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
Industrial mobile equipment Mechanic  for over 35years  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #67 - 12/01/18 at 04:17:37
Post Tools
Hello Again -
my new SLA battery has arrived and I want to check whether I will be ok using my 12 V car basic car battery charger (bought from halfords around 10 years ago).
Read about risk of damage if over charged

Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #68 - 12/01/18 at 04:32:14
Post Tools
The only thing thing to worry about on a sealed battery is continuing excessively high charge voltage once the battery has reached full charge. 

A wet cell battery will gas once fully charged but a sealed battery will eventually vent on the pressure relief valve which will shorten it's life. 

So you can use any charger on an SLA battery provided you monitor charge voltage and don't allow it to exceed the manufacturers recommendation. In the absence of a manufacturers figure 14.5 volts would be safe.  And then when it reaches full charge take it off.

Conversely leaving an SLA on an unregulated charger which might easily reach 16 volts or more once the battery reached full charge would be the kiss of death.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomHoldom
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 24
Location: Brittany, FRANCE
Joined: 09/21/18
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #69 - 12/01/18 at 06:51:50
Post Tools
ok thanks Barry
I wont leave too long.
Any idea how long a first charge might take, and can I rely on the 'ready' indicator light as a safe voltage check, or would I be better off using a voltmeter?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Barry
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4859
Location: England
Joined: 07/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: R65 Resurrection
Reply #70 - 12/01/18 at 09:14:30
Post Tools
If the charger has a ready light then it's not an old unregulated type so it should be safe.   It's right to charge a new battery before putting it into service but it shouldn't need much at all.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 
Send TopicPrint