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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Tube size question (Read 297 times)
wilcom
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Tube size question
10/22/18 at 22:16:33
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I am retiring and I'm mounting a 90/90 up front and a 110/90 in the rear. Is there one tube that will fit both front and rear? I would like to buy 3 and keep one for a spare. I'm seeing tubes for 90/90 and different tubes for the 110/90-4.00 tire. can I get away with the larger tube in the front maybe?
  

Joe Wilkerson
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Tony Smith
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #1 - 10/23/18 at 04:25:21
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Sorry Wilcom but I can only think in Imperial. You can (or at least you used to be able to) buy a tube that covers 3.50*18 to 4.00*18. Just right for the rear and an utterly inconsequential amount too big for the front.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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wilcom
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #2 - 10/23/18 at 08:32:23
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Tony Smith wrote on 10/23/18 at 04:25:21:
3.50*18 to 4.00*18. Just right for the rear and an utterly inconsequential amount too big for the front.


Thanks Tony, ya done good.................I just needed a lil push in that direction to pull the trigger. You have provided that nudge
  

Joe Wilkerson
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georgesgiralt
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #3 - 10/23/18 at 10:44:31
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Well, try to mount a 90/90 front Pilot activ with any tube different than the EXACT size specified and you won't say the difference is inconsequential  Grin
  
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #4 - 10/23/18 at 11:02:30
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Just bought tires and tubes for my LS;  90/90 and 110/90 18's (Bridgestone Battleax's) and found the same problem.  As a suggestion I mail ordered through Dennis Kirk and got Metzler tubes for the 110's and IRC tubes for the 90's.  Turns out the Metzlers I was sent were made in China and the IRC's were made in Japan.  My local mechanic says the IRC's have been problem free for all his customers.  The IRC's were cheap but really look good.  And Dennis Kirk is cheap, but watch the shipping costs; you have to buy a minimum amount (can't remember what at the moment) to get free shipping.  Tires and 2 Metzler tubes were one purchase; free shipping.  2 IRC tubes (bought a spare) were not at the threshold and cost $7.99 to ship from Minnesota to Tennessee/UPS ground/4 days.
  
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wilcom
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #5 - 10/23/18 at 14:22:20
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georgesgiralt wrote on 10/23/18 at 10:44:31:
Well, try to mount a 90/90 front Pilot activ


I was  going tubeless this time for the ease of a roadside repair. This means I'll have to do the mounting myself as the dealer will not deviate from the factory set up.  Long ago I had crossed off Pilot Active from my list of options because of all the chat about the misery of installation. I went with the Avon road Riders in 90/90 & 110/90.

The bike has great looking Metzlers on it but 10 years old. They are 100/90 and 120/90.

I had planed to go "tubeless" for some time now. I purchased vale stems that were suggested on the list and have had them for months. When I  mounted the valve stem I found that the locking nut had a sleeve attached to it and would not allow enough stem to protrude to get air into the tire. The LS has a fat wheel and uses up a lot of stem just going through the wheel. No problem, I'll just run down and get a normal nut and be done with it. Three hours later I was back in my garage with NO NUT. 3 hardware stores, 2 car tire dealers and 2 bicycle shops and none of them had a nut for a valve stem. (.305 x 32 talk about "special")


The next day I travel 10 miles to the nearest motorcycle dealer and they had them. I came back installed the stem, installed the tire and spent the next 2 hours trying to get air into the assembly. I put a strap around the tire and cranked it down till the tire was dimpled in the center and no way was the bead touching anything to let it gain some pressure. I have a compressor with a 20 gallon tank but not even close to volume I would need to blow the tire up against the rim and seal.

Did I mention that when I took off the Metzler front tire I had to buy new tire irons as the lil pansy bike irons I had were not up to the job? I wasted an hour trying to dismount the Metzler before getting longer Irons where I could get some torque to peel the tire off the rim. The new irons although in a slick nylon case would be too large for under seat storage and would have to be packed to take them along.

So after the misery of taking the old tire off, not being able to get a stem nut and wasted 3+ hours and not being able to get the tire to take air,,,,,,,,,,Picture me standing there looking at the tire with a cartoon style light bulb over my head with the caption, " I KNOW, LET'S JUST PUT TUBES IN THEM!"

My roadside repair kit will be my cell phone, AAA card & the spare tube I will be carrying. There is no way that I would be able to change the tire on the side of the road. Just recently there was a post of "Mrclubike" changing his rear tire on the side of the road. He is my new Super Hero, right up there with Superman and Batman.
  

Joe Wilkerson
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Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
1972  R75        
1964 R50
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jackwalls
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #6 - 10/23/18 at 17:35:53
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I feel for you matey, today i watched three clowns called tyre fitters lose the battle with fitting a new front tyre, gotta go back tomorrow for round two !
  
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Tony Smith
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #7 - 10/23/18 at 18:15:17
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jackwalls wrote on 10/23/18 at 17:35:53:
I feel for you matey, today i watched three clowns called tyre fitters lose the battle with fitting a new front tyre, gotta go back tomorrow for round two !



Yep, watching an ass clown bugger up a snowflake rim 30 years ago was why I've (mostly) done my own tyres since.

Two weeks ago i had new tyres fitted to the GSA, I rang asking for a price on a pair of Pirelli Scorpion 2s and the price quoted was very good. Then the guy said "free fitting and balance included". As I've been a bit poorly lately I decided to take advantage and watch them closely while the did the job.

When I arrived the tyre fitter introduced himself - he was a short guy, not much taller than my wife. I was about to offer to ride the GSA in (with the Ohlins fitted it is 1" taller than a stock GSA) but he said "no problems" and asked for the keys.

Well he went out to the roadside and mounted from the RHS, keeping the bike on the side stand until it started and then pushing off and climbing aboard in one movement. Then he rode it down a narrow corridor effortlessly and finally up onto the fixed work bench at the back of the shop reserved for changing tyres.

I thought "well he can ride at any rate."

As he commenced work I was leaning up against the plastic chain that formed a cordon around the tyre changing area, he saw me and invited me in, assuring me that he didn't mind being watched.

I admired his confidence.


But, not only did he do a very professional job of removing the wheels, he buffed up the front axle on a polishing mop (and coated it in lanolin to slow new corrosion) , cleaned all nuts and bolts and put them back in with new anti-seize, had a look at the brake pads and pointed out that my fronts nearly need changing, checked the front bearings before refitting the brakes, check the rear hub for leaks and finally ran the back edge of a spanner over all the spokes to check they all had the same tone.

He then turned the bike around on the work bench and rode it outside, came back and gave me the keys. Elapsed time around 15 minutes.

I complimented him on the job and said something along the lines that tyre changer was usually the most unloved job in a shop and it was good to see someone taking pleasure in doing a good job and doing sensible things like cleaning and lubricating and not just bolting everything back together as it was.

he told me he is the son of the shop's owner and agreed that it was near impossible to get a decent tyre changer, he then said that as the first customer impression that many new people have is getting tyres fitted he decided to do the job himself both to ensure it was done correctly and to manage the customer experience.

I have to say the approach works, cause they just won another customer.

Especially when he said that if I walk in with a set of tyres they will fit them for me for $15 each including the carcass disposal levy (this may be an Asutralia only idea but the Govt charges a fee to cover the processing of old tyres into more useful things - which has of course started a new species of fraud where shady shops collect the levy and then dump the tyres in secluded locations by dead of night. That sounds petty until you think of what the profit on a semi-trailer load of illegally dumped tyres is).
  

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Mrclubike
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #8 - 10/23/18 at 20:29:25
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I store my tire Irons  in the top tube under the gas tank
They are packed in a piece of air conditioner tube insulation

When seating  a tube less tire the  first time you have to remove the valve stem core 
If you don't you will never get enough air into it to seat it
But after that it is a dream   

I have done 9 tubeless tire changes with the Avon AM 26's without any special inflation tools
  

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wilcom
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #9 - 10/23/18 at 22:38:43
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Mrclubike wrote on 10/23/18 at 20:29:25:
I have done 9 tubeless tire changes with the Avon AM 26's without any special inflation tools


I had pulled out the core and still didn't get any good results. I had that strap around the tire and had my Marine friend (6'5'' 255lbs) push down on the tire as I was trying to get it to take air, still no love.

I soaped it up and rotated it on the rim trying to get it to slide up on that lip, but nada, zip point dodo.  With that kind of results in my own garage I didn't think I would see much more success on the side of the road. So I just packed it in.
  

Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
1972  R75        
1964 R50
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Justin B.
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #10 - 10/23/18 at 22:51:39
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On a first mount this can be a problem.  You can get a sort of rubber "donut" that will take up the gap between rim and bead.  I seem to remember using a piece of old 3/8" rubber air hose on one a while back.  Soap it up real good...
  

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wilcom
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #11 - 10/27/18 at 21:47:09
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Justin B. wrote on 10/23/18 at 22:51:39:
On a first mount this can be a problem.  You can get a sort of rubber "donut" that will take up the gap between rim and bead.  I seem to remember using a piece of old 3/8" rubber air hose on one a while back.  Soap it up real good...


The tubes came in yesterday and I had a go at mounting the front with tube. It was 3 hours and a trip to the motorcycle shop. I was unable to get the valve stem in the hole with the available room for my fingers. Labor'd at it for quite awhile and headed for the shop to get a cable that screws into the valve stem and pulled it through while massaging it with my fingers.

To get the tire levered back on the rim it took enough torque on the spoons that I had to get someone to hold down the other side of the wheel while I levered the last 12 inches..

Aired it up and it took 3 times to 80 lbs to get the bead seated all the way around and used enough soap to do dishes for a Battalion.   The end result was a pinched tube as it's leaking badly around the stem.


I'm going to do the rear wheel tomorrow and see if I fair any better. I'll see if I'm taking one wheel or 2 wheels to the bike shop to have the tires mounted.
  

Joe Wilkerson
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Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
1974 R90/6     
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Tony Smith
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #12 - 10/27/18 at 23:53:09
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Wilcom

I predict you will continue to struggle as you seem to lack two essential tools.

Firstly a tube valve "puller"
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Air-Valve-Puller-Tube-Tire-Stem-Tool-Change-for-Moto...


And secondly, at least one  'bead buddy' to keep the opposite side of the tyre in the rim well when you are trying to get the last few inches of tyre over the rim.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motion-Pro-T-6-Trail-Bead-Buddy-Tire-Tool-Offroad-Al...

The above links are only to show what is needed, the actual tools are available much cheaper than the prices shown on FleaBay.

In order to avoid pinched/twisted tubes put some air in as soon as you have the tube valve in the rim and the tube fully inserted into the tyre, any pinches or twists are immediately obvious - release air before trying to finish mounting the tyre.

  

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wilcom
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #13 - 10/28/18 at 01:16:33
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Tony Smith wrote on 10/27/18 at 23:53:09:
Wilcom

I predict you will continue to struggle as you seem to lack two essential tools.

Firstly a tube valve "puller"
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Air-Valve-Puller-Tube-Tire-Stem-Tool-Change-for-Moto...


And secondly, at least one  'bead buddy' to keep the opposite side of the tyre in the rim well when you are trying to get the last few inches of tyre over the rim.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motion-Pro-T-6-Trail-Bead-Buddy-Tire-Tool-Offroad-Al...

The above links are only to show what is needed, the actual tools are available much cheaper than the prices shown on FleaBay.

In order to avoid pinched/twisted tubes put some air in as soon as you have the tube valve in the rim and the tube fully inserted into the tyre, any pinches or twists are immediately obvious - release air before trying to finish mounting the tyre.



I have the valve puller now and your recommendation on airing it up a mite to straighten any kinks or twists maybe what I'm missing. I'll give it a go on the rear tire in the morning and if it is a success,  I will do a post mortem on the front..….. thanks for the tips!!
  

Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
past:
1979  R65   
1980  R65          
1982 R80RT 
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Re: Tube size question
Reply #14 - 10/28/18 at 20:41:21
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And you thought the tubeless route was bad Cry
After 3 tire changes I was done with those darn tubes

The last tire change I did 
I put some chunks of wood in the tire to  spread it open for a while before I mounted it 

The reason the tubes are so hard  to use is that they make it difficult to get the tire down in the valley of the rim so the opposite side can go over the OD of the rim 

Putting plenty of talcum powder on the tube will also help the tube settle
  

Buzzing along on my tubeless 82 R65
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