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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) stainless steel braided brake lines (Read 152 times)
davidpdx
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stainless steel braided brake lines
11/26/18 at 09:58:47
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Anybody have a place they have bought stainless steel braided brake lines that they liked?
  

1984 R65 60K+
1946 Triumph Speed Twin

Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube.  That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…

— Hunter S. Thomps
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tiggum
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #1 - 11/26/18 at 10:19:17
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SPIEGLER USA, in Dayton, Ohio.  Good service, really nice product, with a good selection of colors, etc.  bought a set for my R65LS, which has twin calipers, for $179 and change and they shipped them to my door.  Slightly smaller diameter than OEM, so I need to find a better set of grommets for the supports on the fork legs.
Check them out at www.spieglerusa.com

Also Bob's BMW says they fabricate brake lines to your specs.
  
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davidpdx
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #2 - 11/26/18 at 10:37:50
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Thanks for the info, that looks like the place. Could you tell any difference in braking after you installed them?
  

1984 R65 60K+
1946 Triumph Speed Twin

Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube.  That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…

— Hunter S. Thomps
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Bob_Roller
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #3 - 11/26/18 at 11:11:12
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I put braided stainless brake lines on all the bikes .
I too have Spiegler lines on the oilhead,'82 LS and the Guzzi, the '81 R65 has Luftmeister lines, been on the bike for 27 years .
No noticeable difference is braking .
  

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS  
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!
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Tony Smith
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #4 - 11/26/18 at 14:10:50
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I have Venhill  lines on the R65, the GSA came with braided stainless brake lines OEM and the KLE has a (very cheap) braided line from the Chinese online seller Banggood.

I observe that generally that bikes fitted with stainless steel lines have a more "direct" feel due to there being no (or at any rate little) expansion in the line itself so all hydraulic pressure is available undiminished at the caliper. In the case of the R65 and the KLE I can offer a direct comparison pre-braided and post-braided lines.

In the case of an R65 I have a 12mm master cylinder feeding two K100 sources Brembo twin piston calipers. Whereas in its single disc, rubber hose guise the R65 brakes were not anything to write home about, indeed my wife described them as "dodgy", the conversion to braided lines has sharpened them up significantly - a single finger can lock the front wheel, and while the hydraulic ration has a lot to do with that I strongly suspect that with rubber hoses my 12mm master cylinder simply would not work with the 38mm K100 calipers.

The difference on the KLE is almost as stark - I am on record as expressing loathing of the KLE front brake and the poor braking effort and poor control that single sided calipers have in general. Swapping out the 1200mm rubber hose for a braided line has transformed the braking so that it is now almost acceptable, I attribute the transformation has being wholly due to the lack of expansion in the brake line.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Justin B.
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #5 - 11/26/18 at 14:23:08
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I 'm not sure of the brand but I've had SS lines from Moto-Bins on two bikes.  The nice thing is they are cheaper than rubber OEM!
  

Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!
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Tony Smith
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #6 - 11/26/18 at 16:01:59
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Justin B. wrote on 11/26/18 at 14:23:08:
I 'm not sure of the brand but I've had SS lines from Moto-Bins on two bikes. 


Motobins have sold Venhill for a long time, the complete K100 set were under GBP50 on special when I bought them.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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tiggum
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #7 - 11/27/18 at 09:55:10
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I am very glad that you wrote that last statement about your R65's brakes.  So, the calipers on an R65 are 36 mm, but the calipers from a K100 are 38 mm......are the K100 calipers an otherwise simple substitution?  And do you find that the 38mm calipers are preferable?

I ask because I checked with an outfit here in the states which sells Moto Guzzi parts at a MUCH lower price than seen elsewhere, and tried to order rebuild kits for my R65LS calipers, but was told "No, all our calipers are 38 mm so we can't help you."  The price difference was significant, like $14 vs $43.  The firm is found at MGcycle.com, I believe.
  
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Tony Smith
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #8 - 11/27/18 at 14:53:08
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tiggum wrote on 11/27/18 at 09:55:10:
are the K100 calipers an otherwise simple substitution? 


NO!

Many people, including myself have been seduced by the cheap price of the K100 calipers and parts and bought them hoping to fit them to twin shock airheads. It will not work without a serious amount of engineering.

The reasons are, like many things, shrouded in the mists of time. When BMW (and other European manufacturers) decided to go to disc brakes many of them had the problem of previous models mounting spoked wheels, whereas the "new" models were being switched to cast alloy wheels (BMW "snowflake", Ducati - Campagnolo, and Moto-Guzzi - I forget).

To speak specifically to BMW, they made the Snowflake wheel to adopt the same spacing as the previous spoked wheel, even though with its superior strength and rigidity the Snowflake didn't need to do that.

The Brembo F08 caliper was originally designed to mount to wire wheels (Laverda, Ducati, Moto-Morini, Guzzi etc.) and was therefore a no-brainer for them.

Roll forward to the K100.

There was never a wire-wheel version of the K100 so the wheel spacing is much, much narrower - I have a K100 front end on my r65 and side by side the difference is marked.

Consequently the K100 calipers have an entirely different spacing to the earlier F08s. They can be made to fit by either machining the mounts on the forks (not recommended as a good idea) or by making a spacing bracket which restores the old centering. I have seen such brackets for sale on fleaBay, but at a price that makes the whole exercise pointless.

Unless you have machine tools, the costs to adapt the K100 calipers is in my opinion way to high, you could of course go "all in" and fit the 4-spot calipers from the later K100, they have the same bolting as the earlier calipers but would still require an adapting bracket. I actually bought a set of the 4-spot calipers as I thought that they would give ultimate bragging rights, but the K100 calipers work just fine with the 12mm master cylinder and to use the 4-spots I'd have to re-sleeve the master cylinder to at least 15mm.

I did toy with the idea of selling the 4-spots on, until I discovered that they are pretty much identical to the calipers on the GSA so I've retained them as spares for that, or in case any of my K100 projects ever crystallise into a running motorcycle.

Have a look in the misc tech list where I've been posting a running commentary on fitting the K100 front end, I've posted photos highlighting the difference in the calipers.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Tony Smith
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #9 - 11/27/18 at 14:54:06
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A more "tongue in cheek" answer would have been that the K100 calipers are an easy fit - right after you fit a K100 front end to your R65.
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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Tony Smith
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #10 - 11/27/18 at 20:39:57
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Here is a photo that shows rather dramatically why you cannot fit a K100 Brembo to an R65. Note the amount of "meat" on the mounting side. The R65 caliper is on the right.
  

brembo_caliper_centering.jpg ( 108 KB | 2 Downloads )
brembo_caliper_centering.jpg

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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tiggum
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #11 - 11/29/18 at 20:59:32
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GOOD GRIEF!  Thank you for your more than comprehensive response(s); when someone asks a question of Tony Smith, he certainly gets a thorough response.

Thanks again.
  
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Tony Smith
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #12 - 11/30/18 at 00:52:14
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I should have gone with my "tongue in cheek answer" I suspect...
  

1978 R100RS| 1984 R65 | 1984 XT350 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA
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tiggum
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #13 - 11/30/18 at 08:34:00
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NOPE, I appreciated both the "Tongue in Cheek" response and the thoroughly detailed response.  I would expect that the other users of this site would agree, as we all like highly technical responses and a sense of humor.
  
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Burt
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Re: stainless steel braided brake lines
Reply #14 - 12/08/18 at 17:14:56
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Tony Smith wrote on 11/30/18 at 00:52:14:
I should have gone with my "tongue in cheek answer" I suspect...


I take it the Magistrate does not appreciate your "tongue in cheek" answers, hence the longer version by default?   Roll Eyes
  

Black 1984 R65 - the Wombat
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