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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images) (Read 1507 times)
andrelitinsky
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New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
05/01/19 at 07:26:18
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Fellow airheads, I am a new proud owner of a 1982 R65. This is my first motorcycle so I am not entirely sure what I am doing.

Here is a picture of the bike:


A quick description (from seller):
16000 Miles. Features upgraded Marzocchi shocks, beefy K100 Forks, 34mm Vikuni VM Carbs. Bike has been serviced including: top end refresh, valve adjustment, final drive service, carb sync, etc.

I got this bike from a little shop in DC. Owner said it has been sitting for a long time.

The current problems I am facing:

•      I am leaking fuel from the right exhaust nut

•      Tiny leaks at the oil pan
https://i.imgur.com/7TLnFSr.jpg1
•      The bike starts fairly easily with the Mikuni chokes in the DOWN position (CHOKE OFF), however, after letting idle, and then revving the engine, the bike shuts off (see video).

•      Bike shuts off when carb chokes are in UP position (CHOKE ON) and starts easier when carb chokes are OFF - a bit strange?

•      The mixture screws were messed with, any advice on these Mikuni V34 Carbs?


My next steps are to:
Tuning
1)      Valve adjustment following this guide:
https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/mc-how-to/adjust-valves-bmw-5-airhead-engines
If gaskets looks good, I will probably keep them.

2) Check/replace "$2000" O-ring where oil is leaking

3) Check/replace seals around exhaust nut

Minor Fixes
1) Fix right indicator light
2) Replace center stand spring

Questions:
Do you think I should go through all these tuning steps?
How can I fix some of these problems?
What are more good sources for information? Tuning equipment?
Is there anything I am missing? 

Tools/Equipment Needed:
Exhaust nut tool
Torque wrenches (in/ft sized)
Spark tester
Magnetic drain plug
Contact point set and condenser
Valve cover gasket

In other news:
I get my motorcycle license in two weeks.



« Last Edit: 06/25/19 at 08:06:10 by andrelitinsky »  
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Matt Chapter
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #1 - 05/01/19 at 10:30:04
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There's a lot to chew on here.  As a new rider, I hope you've taken a safety class!  They should have discussed appropriate gear, but a full face helmet, gloves, armored jacket, boots, long pants, and potentially even armored over pants are a minimum.  The main variations of helmets are the shape, vent systems, and extras (such as integrated sun visors or audio systems).  It's best to find a local shop to try on helmets and other gear.  A correctly fitted helmet should not move independently of your head if grabbed and firmly shook.

I don't have any advice about the carbs, except to say that finding the appropriate adjustment procedure before fiddling is best.  Some say the R65 is a bit cold blooded, meaning that it takes a few minutes to warm up and idle correctly.  My setup is basically stock, and I find riding away with the choke still somewhat engaged to work in my case, although as a new rider you may not yet be experienced enough to handle a stall while coming to a stop.

Vehicle registration vary by locality, generally speaking the value of an "antique" registration is that it is cheaper, with the caveat that the vehicle should be used only on certain days, to and from shows, or for mechanical repair testing.  It's not uncommon to find riders who are constantly testing their mechanical repairs, for myself I have a standard registration.

The oil pan gasket needs to be replaced, it's a fairly easy job.  You'll probably want a clymers manual or similar that describes it and other repairs you might make.

Gas from the exhaust header makes me think you are missing an internal gasket in the header, if liquid can escape so can exhaust gases. Are you certain it's gas and not oil shaking loose?  That much unburnt fuel in the cylinder also seems questionable, but is probably related to carb adjustment.

An overall tune up procedure is a good idea and will help you understand the state of your machine.
  

'86 R65 with '84 motor ~66000 miles.  SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles.  Weepy SS lines, big dent in the tank.
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andrelitinsky
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #2 - 05/01/19 at 10:37:08
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Thanks Matt, I am taking my safety courses in a couple of weeks. The Clymers manual is en route to my house.

Im looking at this diagram:


Is the gasket you're talking about #8. Im thinking if I replace 7/8 (nut and seal), perhaps fuel will stop leaking?
  
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georgesgiralt
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #3 - 05/01/19 at 15:33:58
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Hello and welcome to the asylum...
If the bike is an 82 no points. And no adjustment either.
As per the carbs, the plunger must be DOWN for the choke to be OFF.
Last but not least, the exhaust nuts have to be removed with the proper wrench (do not force if they are seized solid, cut them with a Dremel and replace them).
Once removed clean the threads properly using a brass brush or something like that, inspect the treads and put high temperature anti-seize on the threads. There are roughly two types : Red (with copper) and silver (with aluminum). Various brands. This procedure has to be performed once in a while (every other year on mine) to ensure the nuts do not seize and risking ruining the exhaust on the head. Buy a new nut in case you need to cut the old and see what to cut if you have to.
Hope this helps.
P.S. : Ensure the brake fluid is new and of the proper type and properly bleeded .... Ask the mechanics who sold the bike to you. This is VITAL.
  
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #4 - 05/01/19 at 22:14:40
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Your best option is to find the local BMW club and see if they have someone that can help you
They usually have many retired Air head owners that would love to help a new owner

That being said you say that 
"Bike has been serviced including: top end refresh, valve adjustment, final drive service, carb sync, etc."

If that is the case the bike should be running fine

One of the BIG things you have to worry about with this year of BMW is  exhaust valve  recession
Meaning the Exhaust valve lash will have to be checked every 1000 miles until you know it is not excessive
And then every 5000 miles
If it is excessive you will have to get the exhaust valves and  seats replaced

The issue with it shutting off looks to me like a ignition problem
Get a spark tester and put it in line with one of the spark plugs and watch it to see if it stops sparking when it starts to shut down 

Then we can go from there

Also here is the link to Snobums site
Chock full of good stuff
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/technical-articles-list.htm
  

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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #5 - 05/01/19 at 22:24:06
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andrelitinsky wrote on 05/01/19 at 10:37:08:

Is the gasket you're talking about #8. Im thinking if I replace 7/8 (nut and seal), perhaps fuel will stop leaking?


The seal here is not the issue
The fact you have a liquid coming out of the exhaust is the issue
Are you sure it is fuel
More than likely it is condensation if it is and is not leaking exaust  your good
If it is leaking exhaust  then you need to buy a Exhaust nut wrench and try to remove it and see what is going on with the seal

Remember do not force the nut off if it starts to  seize
Stop and cut   off  the nut with out damaging the head
  

wrench.PNG ( 123 KB | 11 Downloads )
wrench.PNG

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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #6 - 05/01/19 at 22:34:54
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That leak is very serious do not run the bike any more until this is checked out
You could  lose  oil pressure and destroy the crank 
It appears some one has not installed the oil filter and cover  correctly

If you look at the picture the gasket is split and leaking

Get on Snobums site and read about the $2000 doller O ring  in the oil filter section
  

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Filter_cover.PNG

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andrelitinsky
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #7 - 05/02/19 at 07:44:01
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Mrclubike wrote on 05/01/19 at 22:34:54:
That leak is very serious do not run the bike any more until this is checked out
You could  lose  oil pressure and destroy the crank 
It appears some one has not installed the oil filter and cover  correctly

If you look at the picture the gasket is split and leaking

Get on Snobums site and read about the $2000 doller O ring  in the oil filter section


I cant thank you enough for catching this! My plan is now to replace the oil and filter and check the gasket. I reckon this combo will do for the oil change:


Reading Snobums article on the O-ring is very confusing - wish me luck!
  
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #8 - 05/02/19 at 09:33:03
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andrelitinsky wrote on 05/02/19 at 07:44:01:
Reading Snobums article on the O-ring is very confusing - wish me luck!


The basic gist is that the oil filter cavity depth may vary, and you will want to measure it to see if you need the shim and gasket installed, or just the gasket.  He also talks about how much compression the o ring should ideally have.  When installing the shim, gasket, and o ring make sure you have the order correct!
  

'86 R65 with '84 motor ~66000 miles.  SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles.  Weepy SS lines, big dent in the tank.
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #9 - 05/02/19 at 14:14:43
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andrelitinsky wrote on 05/02/19 at 07:44:01:
Reading Snobums article on the O-ring is very confusing - wish me luck!


It needn't be complicated. There is a simple check that I do when I change the oil filter without actually taking the measurements every time.

The idea at it's simplest is there must be some compression of the $2000 O ring otherwise oil will leak back into the sump instead of going through the filter.

To test that by feel, leave out the filter and offer up by hand, the cover with gasket/O ring/shim in place and just see how it fits.

If it easily fits flush with the joint face then there is obviously no compression and you need to leave out the cover gasket.

If there is a small gap between cover and the joint face of 0.5mm to 0.8mm mm that will close up fairly easily by tightening the 3 bolts then it's about right.

If the gap is 1mm or bigger and the cover is hard to tighten closed it will compress the O ring too much and extrude it out of shape with a feathered edge. It will also distort  the shim.

If everyone did this simple test there would never be problems with low oil pressure.  In fact if you did the test with feeler gauges it's arguably a more accurate method than using a depth gauge and there is no need to do any maths. The reason for leaving out the oil filter is to ensure compression of the filter end seals doesn't interfere with feeling the compression of the O ring.

The test that you understand how this whole thing works is when you realise that the cover gasket is not there to keep the oil in, it's simply a spacer.



  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #10 - 05/02/19 at 16:05:22
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BTW,
Glue the gasket, the O-ring and the shim on the cover using a smear of grease. This will help having the stack stay put while putting the cover back on and installing the 3 screws. Remember that you are threading very strong steel bolts into tender aluminum. So delicacy is required here and do not tighten those screws too much otherwise you'll destroy the thread int the block. Using the small wrench in the tool set and gentle fist is all that is needed. (if there is a slight leak you'll see it when running the engine)
  
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #11 - 05/02/19 at 19:45:57
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Matt Chapter wrote on 05/02/19 at 09:33:03:
The basic gist is that the oil filter cavity depth may vary, and you will want to measure it to see if you need the shim and gasket installed, or just the gasket. 


Or no gasket at all. The O-ring is perfectly capable of, and indeed designed to, seal the filter cavity. The fact that the gasket in the OP's bike is split and leaking oil is indicative that the O-ring is absent, the wrong size, or simply under insifficient "crush".

I agree with earlier posters that the engine should not be run again until the cansiter depth is measured and the correct "bits" installed.

I am of the school that says that at least one shim is mandatory, my (and others) reason for this is that without the shim the possibility exists of the O-ring deforming on the lip of the canister.
  

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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #12 - 05/02/19 at 20:03:30
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Yes the metal shim and Oring  is always needed on this year of engine
The shim is to prevent the O ring from being cut or blowing out into the crank case

The gasket is optional depending on the depth of the canister
The gasket does not seal the oil pressure in the Oring does
No way is that gasket going to seal in the High pressure found in the Lubrication system
  

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andrelitinsky
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #13 - 05/13/19 at 09:09:11
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UPDATE: I installed the carbs, rotated the air-mixture screws 540 degrees (1.5 turns) out from all the way tight, idle screws was a guess, and then fired her up!

She was idling at 1025 RPMs and it sounded really nice, so the idle screws and mixture were left ALONE. However, the bike was only able to start with the Choke Lever: DOWN, which makes me think it was running rich.

After revving the throttle and adjusting the screws a bit, the RIGHT carb spat some fuel, shortly after, there was loud popping from the RIGHT exhaust, and then leaking at the exhaust nut. The bike dies when revving high. It felt like the right side was running too rich or something.



I did borrow a timing light and Uni Syn from my co-worker. Maybe I can sync the carbs with the Uni Syn and make sure valve clearance and timing is correct?

I was going to use this: http://www.vintagebikebuilder.com/mikuni-tuning-and-jetting-guide.html as a guideline for carb syncing. It does say I need to short the spark plug with a spare one. Does this mean you are syncing ONE side AT A TIME?

Overall, I'm not sure what to be doing, perhaps it's time for a mechanic?
  
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Re: New Airhead Owner - Needs Help! (Lots of Images)
Reply #14 - 05/13/19 at 10:01:28
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andrelitinsky wrote on 05/13/19 at 09:09:11:
I was going to use this: http://www.vintagebikebuilder.com/mikuni-tuning-and-jetting-guide.html as a guideline for carb syncing. It does say I need to short the spark plug with a spare one. Does this mean you are syncing ONE side AT A TIME?


Shorting one side at a time is about balancing the carbs so that each cylinder pulls the same.  I would normal only use this method as a final check after first getting mixture screws and throttle stops in the ball park. Problem we have in advising you of the base settings is that your carbs are not the stock items. I was initially alarmed at the 1.5 turns out until I remembered the carbs are Mikiuni's.
  

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45
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