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Lucky_Lou

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Drop the Needles?
02/18/10 at 12:27:22

Getting Gertie ready for the big ride ive pulled the plugs and done the valve clearances (they were tight) the plugs are black and sooty but not oily so im thinking of dropping the needles a notch but would the clearances effect the combustion ?.
I used a bit of carb cleaner on the plugs and they cleaded up well.Hanyes says try a hotter plug im on BP6es any thoughts.
Lou

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Barry

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Re: Drop the Needles?
Reply #1 - 02/18/10 at 13:39:28

Lucky_Lou wrote on 02/18/10 at 12:27:22:

would the clearances effect the combustion ?.

Don't think so Lou

Dropping the needles one notch is a big change and at this time of year may make Gertie decidedly cold blooded. Maybe worth a try though as those plugs do look black. I'll be very interested to hear about the effect it has. A rich Idle mixture and use of the enricher are just as likley to blacken the plugs.

BP6ES plugs are about right for moderate use in fact thay are already one grade hotter than NGK recommend. I wouldn't risk going any hotter still.

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Barry Hodgson, Cheshire, England 79 R45

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JDS Junior Member Offline surf wyoming Posts: 87 Rio Rancho, New Mexico	Re: Drop the Needles? Reply #2 - 02/18/10 at 16:01:41 after you clean them up run it at speed then kill the motor coast to a stop and check it. maybe its just rich at Idle or low speed. I usually only check plugs under load at the speed I normally ride.
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bruce launceston Full Member Offline 1984 R65LS, owned for 24 years, restored 2008. Posts: 183 Tasmania Australia Gender:	Re: Drop the Needles? Reply #3 - 02/18/10 at 16:52:57 I think I would try leaning out the mixture screws first, as Barry said 1 notch is a big change. I would also do a high speed 'plug chop', as JDS says, to see if the plugs clean up.
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montmil God Member Offline Posts: 3115 Denton, Texas Gender:	Re: Drop the Needles? Reply #4 - 02/18/10 at 17:59:05 Ride her for awhile and then recheck the plugs. Your tight valve clearances may have been part of the sooty-ness. Monte
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Tv YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 48 Melbourne, Australia	Re: Drop the Needles? Reply #5 - 02/18/10 at 22:50:59 I had a similar chronic problem doubled with a midrange loss of power and it was obstucted air intake that caused the problem.
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steve hawkins God Member Offline Lighter, Faster, where's me hacksaw! Posts: 578	Re: Drop the Needles? Reply #6 - 02/19/10 at 07:16:37 I had a mid range stutter that was cured by dropping the needles one notch. However I am not running a standard airbox nor am I running a standard exhaust (headers are standard though) - so all bets are off. Steve H
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steven m

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Re: Drop the Needles?
Reply #7 - 02/19/10 at 10:21:56

If you have been doing a lot of city driving in cold and damp conditions with the choke on to start and not really getting up to operating temperature that could be contributing to your sooty plugs. Take the bike out for a sustained run, ten miles over 4500, and get it nice and hot before pulling the plugs again and if possible pull in the clutch, drop it into neutral, and shut off the engine with no compression braking before pulling the plugs. That will give a more accurate indication of your carb set up.

I wouldn't change anything on your carbs until you have tested it with reset valves. Carbs are really tempting to adjust but aren't always the first place to start. And in this case, apparently running too rich is much better than running too hot and burning something up on your trip.

Steve

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Lucky_Lou

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Re: Drop the Needles?
Reply #8 - 02/19/10 at 10:41:21

steven m wrote on 02/19/10 at 10:21:56:

running too rich is much better than running too hot and burning something up on your trip.

Steve

Thats a valid point bearing in mind im not using addatives in the fuel theres a memorial ride from squires on sunday about 70 mile RT ill check em on the way back before i tweek the needlesthanks for all the input.
Lou

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Lucky_Lou God Member Offline shoot first Posts: 1148 yorkshire england Gender:	Re: Drop the Needles? Reply #9 - 03/10/10 at 11:28:24 Just rechecked the plugs having done a few "longer" rides all seems ok must have been the shorter journeys and use of choke causing the problem as ive not adjusted anything. Lou
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Barry

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Re: Drop the Needles?
Reply #10 - 03/10/10 at 14:50:58

How much choke do you use Lou? I've done nothing but short 3.5 and 4 mile commutes to work through the winter and it hasn't blackened the plugs. I don't ride on the choke though. Start on full choke, back off to half way as soon as it fires then off altogether within a minute or two before setting off. You would think it must be running too rich to be able to do that and maybe it is but I won't change anything till the weather warms up a bit.

BTW I envy you guys with a handle bar mounted choke lever. It's a 3 act farce starting on full choke with the left hand pulling in the clutch out of sympathy for the battery and then having to move down very quickly to get the choke off full before it stalls. No way will the engine run on full choke even at -8 Deg C

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Barry Hodgson, Cheshire, England 79 R45

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Lucky_Lou

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Re: Drop the Needles?
Reply #11 - 03/10/10 at 16:56:52

I usualy use full choke for about 1/4 mile back it down to 1/2 then at about 1 mile knock it off.If it starts popin and fartin on reducing revs i knock it off sooner the shortest journey i do is about 5 miles up to my workshop but thats J39 to J40 on the M1 mostly im out for the day.It starts and ticks over from cold with no problem at all.Usualy about 1300 rpm with choke 1100 without.
Lou

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Barry

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Re: Drop the Needles?
Reply #12 - 03/11/10 at 03:24:11

It ticks over on full choke ?

Mine won't run for more than a few strokes on full choke. Is anybody else able to tickover on choke like Lou? It would be interesting to have a definitive description of what the choke is supposed to do.

BTW Lou and I and everybody else knows it's not really a "choke" we just just substitute that word for enricher or starting carburettor.

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Barry Hodgson, Cheshire, England 79 R45

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bruce launceston Full Member Offline 1984 R65LS, owned for 24 years, restored 2008. Posts: 183 Tasmania Australia Gender:	Re: Drop the Needles? Reply #13 - 03/11/10 at 04:45:57 Stone cold I use full choke until it starts, then off to 1/2 choke for maybe 30 seconds then fully off after riding only about 100 metres. Daytime cold restarts no choke or maybe 1/4 if it doesn't fire straight away.
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Paul Copeland

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Re: Drop the Needles?
Reply #14 - 03/11/10 at 14:01:46

Hi All,

I am not sure if my choke (enricher) works properly. When my bike is cold (anything more than 4 hours stationary, it needs full choke to start. I then leave it on full choke for a minute or two while I put my helmet and gloves on then turn it off before I drop it off the centre stand. If I have full choke on when I drop it off the centre stand it starts to stumble.

My bike will never run on the 1/2 choke mark for more than a few seconds, so I never use it.

Maybe one choke disk is blocked because one has been off and cleaned when I replaced an o-ring on the shaft.

Best to all,
Paul

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